* *
What annoyed you today?POLL for BIRDSBIRDS: Weekly comp CHAT 1...BIRDS: Weekly Comp ENTRY ...CHAT-ROCK-WEEKLY COMP 23-...ENTRIES-ROCK-WEEKLY COMP ...What made you feel good t...Poll for PUBLIC ARTStill here !!Poll - Up Close and Perso...PUBLIC ART - ENTRIES 2-9/...PUBLIC ART CHAT - 2-9/07/...UP CLOSE AND PERSONAL ENT...POLL-Summer Pastimes 18-2...UP CLOSE AND PERSONAL CH...What bemused you today?

Author Topic: What annoyed you today?  (Read 413114 times)

Offline Hinfrance

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4370
  • Cake is good
    • Hinfrance
Re: What annoyed you today?
« Reply #3540 on: June 10, 2016, 06:27:33 PM »
What's annoying me today and probably for the next few weeks is the hysterical garbage being touted by both the Brexiteers and the Remainders. I haven't seen a word of sense or even truth from either of them..
Howard  My CC Gallery
My Flickr
The theory seems to be that as long as a man is a failure he is one of God's children, but that as soon as he succeeds he is taken over by the Devil. H.L Mencken.

Offline jinky

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2591
Re: What annoyed you today?
« Reply #3541 on: June 10, 2016, 07:43:20 PM »
What's annoying me today and probably for the next few weeks is the hysterical garbage being touted by both the Brexiteers and the Remainders. I haven't seen a word of sense or even truth from either of them..

Yes I'm glad the Euros have started tonight to change the subject! I've even decided to stop trolling my Facebook Brexit contacts.

Offline Reinardina

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3890
  • Still trying to master photography.
Re: What annoyed you today?
« Reply #3542 on: June 10, 2016, 09:36:06 PM »
I won't be in the UK for the Referendum, on purpose.

There is only one thing certain: leave, and we get our sovereignty, and democracy  back.
Stay, and we will slowly be swallowed up, and lose everything, this country has built up over the last millennium.

Continental Europe is naturally inclined to cling together, and become one. They are surrounded on all sides by other countries and most are relatively small. Too small to be totally independent. After all, it was one nation for a thousand years: the Holy Roman Empire lasted from appr 806 till 1800, when Napoleon and nationalism broke up the unity, and see what happened: war upon war upon war.

Britain however, was never part of it, has always been independent, and will not be incorporated without losing its character, its identity, it's great judicial system, everything that it holds dear.
And it won't be like the United States, where every state still has its own legislation; it will be one state, one law, for all. Decided by faceless, un elected Eurocrats.

The rest is anyone's guess. Free trade? After WW2 the world free trade agreement was set up, so there is free trade anyway. The EU could not stop the import of cheap Chinese steel for that very reason.

Economy, jobs? Business goes where most profit is made, they're all multinationals, and not bound by country borders. They may move away, they may stay, we simply don't know.

The big name German cars, that are produced in Britain, are mainly exported to China, which is the biggest car manufacturer in its own right.

Some people seem to think that continental Europe will disappear altogether, but of course it's still there, and business is business, whether we're in, or out of the EU.

Hmmm, for a non political person, this is quite a speech.

__________________
Reinardina.

Beauty is bought by judgment of the eye.
Shakespeare. (Love's Labours Lost.)

Offline Simple

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 498
Re: What annoyed you today?
« Reply #3543 on: June 11, 2016, 08:33:20 AM »
Reinardina, as the other Dutch person in the UK I agree whole heartedly with everything you said. Britain should not become part of a united states of Europe! Like you I am not a political person, I am not even allowed to vote because I kept my Dutch passport but surely brexit is common sense.

Offline Reinardina

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3890
  • Still trying to master photography.
Re: What annoyed you today?
« Reply #3544 on: June 11, 2016, 09:46:27 AM »
I can't vote either, as I am still Dutch.

It does not make sense, for the UK to be incorporated into a failing super state.

There will be problems to solve, whether we stay or whether we go.

But as a sovereign state, we can solve our own problems, without the EU constantly interfering, and telling us what we cannot do.

(I say 'we,' as I fully support my adopted country, even though I cannot vote in the Referendum or general elections.)
« Last Edit: June 11, 2016, 09:58:10 AM by Reinardina »
__________________
Reinardina.

Beauty is bought by judgment of the eye.
Shakespeare. (Love's Labours Lost.)

Offline Hinfrance

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4370
  • Cake is good
    • Hinfrance
Re: What annoyed you today?
« Reply #3545 on: June 11, 2016, 10:51:33 AM »
How do you think the system, especially the precious NHS, will cope with most of the 1.5 million, mostly elderly, expats returning to the UK?

The UK has been a power in decline for generations, stuff all manufacturing left, hidebound by even more stringent rules than the rest of the EU, massive government debt (roughly in the same league a Spain and Portugal, worse even than France - yes, really), a navy with fewer surface vessels than Thailand, more CCTV cameras spying on its own citizens than the rest of Europe combined. The only thing keeping the crumbling edifice afloat is financial services, already under threat from Frankfurt and New York.

The idea the glory days await after a Brexit vote are delusional. The UK is a has been in an increasingly competitive world, clinging desperately onto past glories like a drowning man slowly losing his grip on the hull of a sinking yacht. Mind you, most of the rest of Europe is little better. Osborne's 'austerity' is simply not increasing the national debt at breakneck speed, partially achieved by selling off any remaining bits of national infrastructure anyone can be persuaded to buy. By any sane measure the current 'austerity' is just more and more reckless unfundable spending.

Greece? Their entry into the Eurozone, far from causing their catastrophic bankruptcy actually allowed them to carry on spending money they hadn't earned until then, and never were going to earn, backed by the Euro's perceived strength (ie Germany's). It gave them a kick the can down the road opportunity that delayed the inevitable crash for years. The Greek prospectus to join the Euro stated that their CA shortfall was 3% (the maximum permitted for entry into the Eurozone) but it was actually at least 8% - clearly they were on the point of default before they joined.

As for control of borders, cloud cuckoo land. 3, yes count them, 3 border patrol vessels for the entire UK coast. Utter joke. France has 40, the Italians hundreds, and they still can't control their coasts.

All that said, the EU has no effective franchise being completely disconnected from the citizenry, it is corrupt, bureaucratic to the core, and hasn't had its spending pass audit for 19 years in a row. Above all it institutionally international socialist and thus nannying, dictatorial, and is trying legislate human nature out of existence.

It's part of a broader malaise, that of the complete abandonment of their core constituents by the modern crop of established party politicians in the western democracies. This why we have Farage and Corbyn in the UK, the NF and CGT in France, the AFD in Germany, Trump and Sanders in the US. It doesn't matter if individuals are left or right leaning, they're all p*ss*d off by the centrists, who are, despite the anguished cries of 'Tory scum' and 'Commie b*sta*rds' from opposing quarters, pretty much indistinguishable from each other.

So, in conclusion, I can't see it matters a damn which way the UK votes. The decline will continue with or without EU membership, it's just be on a slightly different downwards slope. I suppose if there is a Brexit, then at least there won't be anyone else to blame, and we will move back to Kent (and try to get a job to compensate for the higher personal taxes in the UK).
« Last Edit: June 11, 2016, 10:58:13 AM by Hinfrance »
Howard  My CC Gallery
My Flickr
The theory seems to be that as long as a man is a failure he is one of God's children, but that as soon as he succeeds he is taken over by the Devil. H.L Mencken.

Offline Beaux Reflets

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2050
  • Commonsense answers a whole load of the unanswered
    • Beaux Reflets
Re: What annoyed you today?
« Reply #3546 on: June 11, 2016, 12:43:39 PM »
I can't vote either, as I am still Dutch.

It does not make sense, for the UK to be incorporated into a failing super state.

There will be problems to solve, whether we stay or whether we go.

But as a sovereign state, we can solve our own problems, without the EU constantly interfering, and telling us what we cannot do.

(I say 'we,' as I fully support my adopted country, even though I cannot vote in the Referendum or general elections.)

I'm amazed and saddened by the Separatism views that appear to be unfolding; The so called 'failing super state' only requires improved liaisons that do not undermine individual countries sovereignty allowing a greater flexability within their participation, whilst considering the ramifications, affects and effects upon fellow member countries and the wider world.

Economics In or Out will always be subject to the prosperity of the Customer base, and if the EU "fails" the UK will see a reduction in trade within that area full stop.

The Brexit air on immigration control (to my mind) is also a little thin when looking at Pension and Healthcare of an increasing longevity in the Population; and argueably, the result of any inherent effect in holding wage levels also benefits the "being and remaining competitive" within the Global marketplace, while improving the speed of recovery from (recent) inevitable Recessions.

Today is so different from the more laborious (pre-advent of computer and Internet) days of old, and looking globally, we need each others assistance more than ever to maintain a cohesive society.

Remain and reform from within, as Europe's problems will always be UK problems whether in or out !

Offline ABERS

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2195
    • Black and White Images by Alan Abercrombie
Re: What annoyed you today?
« Reply #3547 on: June 11, 2016, 01:40:49 PM »
Some investing points of view expressed here. Four in fact, two from non British UK residents and two from British  non UK residents.

It would appear that the former pair advocate  Brexit whilst the opposite from the other, a strange anomaly.

The denigration of GB by those that want  to remain is a spur to the leavers.

It's  the first time that I have read that 1.5 million expats would be coming back to the UK, where has that come from?

Offline David Blandford

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 146
    • David Blandford Photography
Re: What annoyed you today?
« Reply #3548 on: June 11, 2016, 02:59:06 PM »
Some interesting points, but I still cannot make up my mind due to the lack of available facts. I am starting to think that things will only change if we vote leave, the question is will things change for the better or not?        :-\ :-\
still trying to paint with light!!

Offline Hinfrance

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4370
  • Cake is good
    • Hinfrance
Re: What annoyed you today?
« Reply #3549 on: June 11, 2016, 03:18:02 PM »
Alan, there are roughly 2 million UK expats living in the EU (the figure is not exactly known, but it is between 1.5 and 2 million), the majority retired 'to the sun'. For them healthcare and pension preservation are at the forefront of their concerns. Some will stay put, but Brexit is likely to end reciprocal health care arrangements and that will have a large number of them on the first bus back to Blighty. Even though, despicably, returning UK citizens cannot receive health care for 6 months after going back to the UK. And, as retirees in Commonwealth countries know to their cost, their state pensions will be frozen. Who knows what might happen to taxation agreements? I suspect any reaction will be largely fueled by fear and speculation, but you can expect to see a sudden and large repatriation. Unlike the majority of EU migrant workers they will not be productive. Their spending will help, but it won't offset the additional burden on the NHS.

The consequences of a Brexit will depend rather more on the reactions of the EU as a whole than on anything the UK does. Which means that it is impossible to say what those effects might be. To quote the Arab proverb "never trust those who claim to predict the future, even if subsequent events suggest they may have been right".

David, I think you are quite right - both sides have been spouting risible nonsense.

The way I see it there is likely to be a vote to leave, because let's face it, this is a once in a lifetime opportunity to stick it to Cameron and Corbyn in one hit!
« Last Edit: June 11, 2016, 03:20:33 PM by Hinfrance »
Howard  My CC Gallery
My Flickr
The theory seems to be that as long as a man is a failure he is one of God's children, but that as soon as he succeeds he is taken over by the Devil. H.L Mencken.

Offline ABERS

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2195
    • Black and White Images by Alan Abercrombie
Re: What annoyed you today?
« Reply #3550 on: June 11, 2016, 04:09:42 PM »
Well if 1.5 million decide to come back, unless they have property to come back to, they're  in for a nasty surprise.  They'll  find nowhere to live since the country is awash with some 3.5 million immigrants. If they are lucky enough to bring back some capital from the sale of their property in the EU they'll  find that the capital from the depressed property prices on the continent will just about stretch to a 1 bedroom flat  in some Thatcher devastated, God forsaken part of the country. When they weigh up the pros and cons of such a move they will decide to stay put.

Perhaps some arrangement could be made similar  to the Turkey deal where for every expat who returns an Eastern European  car washer or Big Issue seller
 can be  returned to his/her homeland. There must be at least 1.5 million of those about, thus retaining the status quo. ::)

Offline Beaux Reflets

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2050
  • Commonsense answers a whole load of the unanswered
    • Beaux Reflets
Re: What annoyed you today?
« Reply #3551 on: June 11, 2016, 04:13:34 PM »
Some interesting points, but I still cannot make up my mind due to the lack of available facts. I am starting to think that things will only change if we vote leave, the question is will things change for the better or not?        :-\ :-\

Any venture only works when a real full effort is invested into it along side any monetary aspect that runs hand in hand with that investment. Over the years there has been little in coordinated coverage keeping the general populace totally in tune with what is going across the whole of Europe. In general, MEP's and their working, do not get the same level in media coverage as MP's and Home News, and accordingly, I suspect most folk do not even know their MEP's name, let alone how they are or are not representing them, in looking after particular interests that will have a direct knock on effect (unless they are receiving EU subsidies directly into their business) and like wise, it would be extremely crazy to vote in an MEP who did not believe in the EU as they would not help to constructively reform it . That said, some facts (just as in UK Gov) no doubt only surface at appointed time, freedom of information etc. and the EU Referendum should be a wake up call for more democratic openness and transparency upon a Remain.

Given the aspect of UK's deficit, my business head says the risks are far too great, by adding more to the debt (as an Exit will take time and cost money) even in a short term, is no guarantee that things will get better in the long term, simply as no one can quantify the ripple effect upon the other member countries and the Global market. I can well imagine a property market negative equity problem, high interest rates on borrowing, a devaluation in Pension pots etc., kicking in very swiftly on a vote to Leave .

« Last Edit: June 11, 2016, 04:43:01 PM by Beaux Reflets »

Offline ABERS

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2195
    • Black and White Images by Alan Abercrombie
Re: What annoyed you today?
« Reply #3552 on: June 11, 2016, 04:44:04 PM »
(unless they are receiving EU subsidies directly into their business)

What more  and more people are realising is that any trumpeted subsidies that the EU send the UK, comprise money that we've  already sent to the  to the EU in the first place.

As far as MEPs  are concerned the fact UKIP polled the majority of votes and seats are allocated on a proportional representational basis it's  no wonder no one knows who is representing them. Who cares when their only function is to rubber stamp decisions that are sent to them. A huge gravy train that move at great cost each month to Strasbourg.

Offline Beaux Reflets

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2050
  • Commonsense answers a whole load of the unanswered
    • Beaux Reflets
Re: What annoyed you today?
« Reply #3553 on: June 11, 2016, 05:28:15 PM »
(unless they are receiving EU subsidies directly into their business)

What more  and more people are realising is that any trumpeted subsidies that the EU send the UK, comprise money that we've  already sent to the  to the EU in the first place.

As far as MEPs  are concerned the fact UKIP polled the majority of votes and seats are allocated on a proportional representational basis it's  no wonder no one knows who is representing them. Who cares when their only function is to rubber stamp decisions that are sent to them. A huge gravy train that move at great cost each month to Strasbourg.

Farm subsidies help to keep food prices down (now there are no more butter mountains) and other returns have funded job creations etc., - I view money sent to the EU as a long term investment to broaden and increase the EU marketplace, hopefully in a sustainable way through rubber stamping as you put it. Sure I agree the gravy train is financially top heavy and the EU needs to be reformed in various areas, to provide a more cost effective and democratic way ahead for all the citizens within the Single market. Likewise I would like to see all member countries paying in proportionally Pro rata their population.

Oh for an ideal world ;)

Trade not Aid, where every individual has dignity and selfworth; and malnutrition no longer grips a single newborn.
« Last Edit: June 11, 2016, 05:41:22 PM by Beaux Reflets »

Offline DigiDiva

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1592
Re: What annoyed you today?
« Reply #3554 on: June 11, 2016, 11:25:48 PM »
Today I was thoroughly annoyed..my train to York for a photo meet broke down 15 mins into journey and missed the meet up






Please visit my website @ www.sunderlandwallart.com

 

latest Posts

Subject Board Views/Replies Member Date & Time
xx What annoyed you today? General Discussion 413114/3691 anglefire Last post July 26, 2017, 06:00:55 AM
question POLL for BIRDS International Weekly Comp Entries 60/0 Hinfrance Last post July 25, 2017, 11:03:23 AM
xx BIRDS: Weekly comp CHAT 15-23/07/17 International Weekly Comp Entries 527/12 Jediboy Last post July 24, 2017, 06:11:24 PM
xx BIRDS: Weekly Comp ENTRY Thread 15-23/07/17 International Weekly Comp Entries 306/7 Oldboy Last post July 23, 2017, 10:44:10 PM
smiley CHAT-ROCK-WEEKLY COMP 23-30/7 International Weekly Comp Entries 65/0 Hinfrance Last post July 23, 2017, 01:33:37 PM
question ENTRIES-ROCK-WEEKLY COMP 23-30/7 International Weekly Comp Entries 49/0 Hinfrance Last post July 23, 2017, 01:30:30 PM
xx What made you feel good today General Discussion 400432/3725 Paul Montgomery Last post July 23, 2017, 01:16:17 PM
xx Poll for PUBLIC ART International Weekly Comp Entries 328/5 jinky Last post July 21, 2017, 09:37:45 AM