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Author Topic: Why I hate Apple and Windows  (Read 9978 times)

Offline hevans

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Why I hate Apple and Windows
« on: September 28, 2009, 01:55:48 PM »
I need to start with an apology:

I'm Sorry, but I just finished reading http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2009/sep/28/charlie-brooker-microsoft-mac-windows and thought I'd vent a bit. I can't be arsed to register with the grauniad, so I thought I'd do it here. I could also have included it in the windows forum, but hey, it can't go everywhere. Enjoy  :tup:

I first used an Apple ][ in the very early '80s. It was a nice little machine, you needed to type "GO C700" to get it to boot from the floppy drive - just one step above flipping switches on the front panel. The machine was a real hobbyists machine, it came with a full schematic and instructions for writing your own Basic programs, and creating your own peripherals. Fantastic!

The next experience with Apple was with one of the original Macs...the one parodied in Bloom County as the Banana Jr. It was a cute and cuddly little machine that showed its equivalent of the blue screen of death, a series of friendly little bombs, randomly every minute/5 minutes/half hour, just as you were about to press "save". I blame it for my weak follicles, owing to the stress induced by it and the rending of hair. In the meantime, Microsoft was plugging away in the stone age at it's character in cell, command line interface and just dabbling with windows, it was nice and reliable at the time.

I recently bought an Ipod nano. It's nice. The user interface is somewhat irritating at times (why can't I use the wheelie thing to skip quickly through a pod cast? Or can I? No instructions, nothing obvious works for this other than holding down the >>| button until it seems to find the place...except sometimes it just keeps rewinding/fastforwarding with no way to stop it until it hits the beginning/end of the podcast).

I acknowledge that the Mac's are generally superior/easier to use: in form (they are prettier, more girlie, I'm surprised there isn't a Jimmy Choo version); perhaps in design (hardware is mostly PC based now...so what's the difference other than the trendy box?); and definitely in user interface experimentation (although it's the user that is the guinea pig). Are they really easier to use? To me a Nikon is easier to use than a Canon/Sony/Pentax/etc, some may argue otherwise. Ease of use depends entirely on what you're used to. They do boot faster, and generally run faster, but mostly because they aren't hobbled with anti-virus software. Security? Well, I don't think it's really that much more secure than the latest versions of Windows; security is more a matter of how you use the system (is your everyday account an administrator/root/system account, or do use use an unprivileged account; are you inclined to run things from the internet without considering its origins; do you use a firewall, or have you disabled it because you can't be bothered to configure it properly and so it is difficult to printing to the network printer; do you use a condom with a stranger :o; etc. etc.).  One major downside for the macintosh is the lack of applications (although it is possible to run things in a windows emulator), but then this is a matter of whether you really need those applications anyway, and will improve as the iMarketShare grows.

So, why do I hate Apple? It's partly because of their marketing strategy. Vertical integration of the marketplace: force the user to only use the products chosen by Apple, you use them as we tell you how we want you to. You want a legitimate Iphone, sorry, you have to get a subscription with the service provider of Apple's choosing. You want to use another MP3 player with Itunes? Sorry, only Ipods need apply. This does make for a more stable platform, you control all the hardware/software and can code for them - non supported hardware need not apply and the platform doesn't suffer from poorly written 3rd party device drivers. So quality control should be better.

Ok, the situation with regards to 3rd party hardware has gotten better, you can now use a non-iMouse on your mac, and enjoy being able to use more than just the single digit that apple thinks you were born with (multiple buttons on a mouse...what a concept). You can plug in a non-iDisk for backups. But all this has come about due to the ubiquity of the USB port and forced Apple's hand, requiring Apple to support it and the various peripherals designed for the PC.

But what do I dislike the most about apple? The hip and trendy gitoids that suffer the need to massage their superiority complexes at every turn when they see a Windoze user (it's almost neurotic how they feel insecure in their choice of operating system and have to justify it on a continual basis to those that don't use it). People use Windows because they have to: it's required by your company; a Mac is too expensive (bang for the buck); etc. On the other hand, it appears that people use Macs because they are buying into a lifestyle culture. So, the windows users are the slaves, and the mac users are more the sheep following the herd to the fashionable apple store because they all want to be the same (which is ironic to me, because they convince themselves that they are buying the stuff to make themselves appear different).

So:
  • I don't like windows - but have to use it as it's the platform at work for corporate applications, the wife and kids are used to it (I don't have the energy to hand hold them through a migration to Linux)
  • I don't like the Mac culture and the vertical market integration - I prefer choice and I choose not to participate, and the price tag is not worth it, in my mind (I'd rather have a life than an Iphone)
  • I like Linux, but don't have the time or inclination anymore to get it to integrate with everything (I use SuSE at work for real applications - physics simulations, data analysis, etc., but don't have to integrate additional hardware to it
  • I'd dearly love OpenVMS to return...at last an OS that was designed and not hydroponically grown like an obscure biological entity

Of all the above options, though, windowsXP provides the best solution for me - it's a cheaper option, works in general and isn't overly aggravating. Ah, but then why write this? It's because of the annoyance of the gitoids that just get on my tits sometimes.

In summary, it's not the hardware/software that I dislike, but the corporate policy and the human drivel(*) that surrounds it.  :legit:

Sorry for the ramble. It must be Monday. Never really got the hang of Mondays.

H.

(*) That's not to say that every iOwner is one of the gitoids. That would be imposing a general observation on a specific case. ;)
« Last Edit: September 28, 2009, 02:10:34 PM by hevans »



picsfor

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Re: Why I hate Apple and Windows
« Reply #1 on: September 28, 2009, 02:31:43 PM »
I don't see it as a rant - more an expression of frustration.
My favourite OS was that of the Amiga -v3 to be precise. Way ahead of its time and mutli tasking like Microsoft would still give its right arm for but which the Apple handles with ease.
But then the Amiga OS was built in the same way as Mac OS so i suppose that may explain the similarities.

Is a Mac expensive? Yep - no doubt about it - but here is the real rub. It is just sooo much quicker than any comparable MS Windows machine it starts to balance out.
Let us consider that i earn £20 per hour. So an hour of my time equals £20.
I can assure you that each week i spend at least an hour less waiting for the hour glass to disappear after booting up and logging into an MS Windows system when on the Mac.
End result is - after 52 weeks i have saved myself an amazing £1040 in time that is mine to do with not Wintels.
I do not need a multitude of security software and a platoon of virtual guards to ensure my system is safe. It just isn't fool of all the VB and other MS loopholes.

I do not suffer the (what i now realise is a large amount) of system hangs and need to back things up every 10 minutes for fear of it breaking down.
I do not have to suffer the ignominy of waiting 10 minutes for the Spam filters clear out all the crap that MS seems o allow in but which the Mac seems to filter with ease when i open an e-mail package.
I do not need a 1Tb hard drive to install the Bloat OS and all the Bloat Software - and yes it is bloatware - and it was so even under DOS. Did you ever check how many times you had installed the DOS 4 handler? Every program had its own copy. Why? Think about it - how has Snow Leopard actually reduced the amount of Disk space needed as opposed to Wintel Law requiring a machine that doubles in memory, processor and hard drive space with every new version of the OS and almost with every Service Pack release. It's sloppy coding - simple as that.

You are right- i am lucky i can afford a lovely 24" iMac - but i don't buy into the Apple Corporate gumph. I buy into something that does what i want it to and in a simple and reliable fashion.
I don't have an iPod, iTouch, iPhone or any other "i" device. My external back drive is a Western Digital - no way i'm paying for the Apple version - waster of money!

Bill Gates has done a great thing in bringing some form of order to the computing masses but MS software is like the MS illness - it cripples its owner in a terrible way.
I bought into the MS way, i studied for my beloved MSCE etc and then woke up one day and realised that all was not good. All was not even acceptable.

I done my sums, saved my money and bought a Mac - not because of the Apple way - but because i just wanted a more simple and reliable computer experience.


Offline Jonathan

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Re: Why I hate Apple and Windows
« Reply #2 on: September 28, 2009, 02:37:24 PM »
Anybody who thinks about it before buying a Mac is missing the point ;)

I am cool.  Therefore I use Macs.  Seemples.
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Offline hevans

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Re: Why I hate Apple and Windows
« Reply #3 on: September 28, 2009, 02:47:16 PM »
I don't see it as a rant - more an expression of frustration.
My favourite OS was that of the Amiga -v3 to be precise. Way ahead of its time and mutli tasking like Microsoft would still give its right arm for but which the Apple handles with ease.
But then the Amiga OS was built in the same way as Mac OS so i suppose that may explain the similarities.
Never really got into the amigas, but have some friends that swear by the commodore C64.

Quote
Is a Mac expensive? Yep - no doubt about it - but here is the real rub. It is just sooo much quicker than any comparable MS Windows machine it starts to balance out.

Actually, I find that it's a personal time management issue. If you learn to multitask effectively, then this equation is a misleading point. For example, my workflow:
  • unlock office
  • get laptop out of bag
  • drop into docking station
  • power on
  • go to coffee machine
  • turn it on (it's a senseo) so it will start to heat up
  • take reservoir to sink & fill
  • go back to PC, log in
  • place reservoir back in coffee machine
  • place coffee pad in coffee machine
  • place mug under spout
  • press button to make coffee
  • add milk
  • go back to computer, sit down and start working.


So, I don't even notice that the machine has taken a few minutes to cold boot. So, the time you refer to is not "lost", just made better use of.

H.

Quote
I do not suffer the (what i now realise is a large amount) of system hangs and need to back things up every 10 minutes for fear of it breaking down.
I do not have to suffer the ignominy of waiting 10 minutes for the Spam filters clear out all the crap that MS seems o allow in but which the Mac seems to filter with ease when i open an e-mail package.

I don't seem to suffer these things either. Spam is dealt with at the server, where it should be. I think I now get 1-2 genuine spam messages a day now. System hangs are pretty much a thing of the past. I can't remember the last time I had to forcibly reboot the machine. The hard drive is only a 40 Gb one, and I still have 7 Gb free (most of the remaining space is MP3s, photos and a good bit of work related data).


Quote
with every new version of the OS and almost with every Service Pack release. It's sloppy coding - simple as that.
Sloppy coding comes with everything. The reason all of these DLLs are re-distributed with each application is to ensure that the DLLs are available on every target system. You'll find the same is true of the shareable object files on Linux (I think we've currently got 6 versions of the GCC libraries on our work machines, just to make sure everything works).

Quote
You are right- i am lucky i can afford a lovely 24" iMac - but i don't buy into the Apple Corporate gumph. I buy into something that does what i want it to and in a simple and reliable fashion.
And that's exactly the way that tools should be bought. Just others have different priorities and user requirements.

Quote
Bill Gates has done a great thing in bringing some form of order to the computing masses but MS software is like the MS illness - it cripples its owner in a terrible way.
Yup, like Hitler managed to unite the French and English in a common cause. :) (BTW, that's not an instance of Godwin's Law...)

Quote
I done my sums, saved my money and bought a Mac - not because of the Apple way - but because i just wanted a more simple and reliable computer experience.

And I've done my sums, saved my money and bought a PC (four years ago) with XP - not because it's beautiful - but because it works well enough, is simple and reliable enough.

;)
H.
« Last Edit: September 28, 2009, 02:50:50 PM by hevans »

Offline hevans

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Re: Why I hate Apple and Windows
« Reply #4 on: September 28, 2009, 02:48:36 PM »
Anybody who thinks about it before buying a Mac is missing the point ;)

I am cool.  Therefore I use Macs.  Seemples.

You forgot the cool smiley! 8)

Hybridphotog

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Re: Why I hate Apple and Windows
« Reply #5 on: September 28, 2009, 03:17:55 PM »
And I've done my sums, saved my money and bought a PC (four years ago) with XP - not because it's beautiful - but because it works well enough, is simple and reliable enough.

;)
H.
I did my sums several years ago, saved for the bits, and built my own PC. The "design spec" was for a PC to be overclocked until it's screaming for mercy, but in reality the gains were negligible. Therefore, I'd built a PC that was built to last. I plumped for Linux because I was tired of Windows instabilities and bloatyness, along with the inexplicable requirement for full reinstallations every X months. Yes, Linux wasn't easy at first, but once I'd figured the Linux doesn't like doing things like Windows (aka "Forget everything and start again"), I was fine.

Now with the advent of 64-bit processors, Linux again gives me no reason to 'jump ship'. Linux does everything I want, and I know where I stand with it. I don't need to be molly-coddled through basic procedures, nor am I too afraid to get stuck in with Bash scripting and command line interfaces/terminals.

I'm a Linux user, and I'm 40 years old.  :)

P.S. Get it right at the start...
[user@home]$ sudo apt-get remove emacs
... Vim's already installed. :D
« Last Edit: September 28, 2009, 03:22:20 PM by Hybridphotog »

Offline hevans

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Re: Why I hate Apple and Windows
« Reply #6 on: September 28, 2009, 03:36:44 PM »

I did my sums several years ago, saved for the bits, and built my own PC. The "design spec" was for a PC to be overclocked until it's screaming for mercy, but in reality the gains were negligible. Therefore, I'd built a PC that was built to last. I plumped for Linux because I was tired of Windows instabilities and bloatyness, along with the inexplicable requirement for full reinstallations every X months. Yes, Linux wasn't easy at first, but once I'd figured the Linux doesn't like doing things like Windows (aka "Forget everything and start again"), I was fine.

In this instance I find most of the older styled OS have a fault, but it's more a fault of how the systems must be used. It goes like this: a service didn't start correctly, so you get it to start from the command line, then edit the appropriate /etc/init.rc file so it should start the next time. But you don't reboot to test, because the users are already online and working. The test comes at the next reboot, when it fails again, but for another reason: the change has broken something else further down the boot chain.

Quote

Now with the advent of 64-bit processors, Linux again gives me no reason to 'jump ship'. Linux does everything I want, and I know where I stand with it. I don't need to be molly-coddled through basic procedures, nor am I too afraid to get stuck in with Bash scripting and command line interfaces/terminals.

Well, it's tcsh for me, but more from familiarity than anything. But yes, this is something that is sorely missing on all windows platforms - a good command line interface. Some things are just plain easier to do from the command line, e.g. rename every file in a directory tree so there is an "A" before the file extension.

Quote
I'm a Linux user, and I'm 40 years old.  :)
I'm a Linux/Windows/VMS user, and I'm nearly 100 years older.
Quote
P.S. Get it right at the start...
[user@home]$ sudo apt-get remove emacs
... Vim's already installed. :D
Now I am worried. In the first instance, I will usually fire up vi...if I'm programming fortran/C++/python/etc, then I'll usually wimp out and fire up xemacs.

H.

Hybridphotog

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Re: Why I hate Apple and Windows
« Reply #7 on: September 28, 2009, 11:53:15 PM »
In this instance I find most of the older styled OS have a fault, but it's more a fault of how the systems must be used. It goes like this: a service didn't start correctly, so you get it to start from the command line, then edit the appropriate /etc/init.rc file so it should start the next time. But you don't reboot to test, because the users are already online and working. The test comes at the next reboot, when it fails again, but for another reason: the change has broken something else further down the boot chain.
When I'd decided on Linux, I plumped for RedHat (5, iirc). After a crash-course on user permissions, and why root shouldn't be used at all really (as root,"rmdir /boot" taught me a lesson...), I returned to Windows and promised to give Linux another go after another release. A magazine had a copy of Mandrake on its cover DVD (8, iirc). A space was made on my drives, Mandrake was installed. Two or three months later, Windows was removed from my PC.

Mandrake became Mandriva, and updating the distro became more and more problematic. Ubuntu was tested out, and found to have a very functional installer/update system.

The rest is history. ;)
Well, it's tcsh for me, but more from familiarity than anything. But yes, this is something that is sorely missing on all windows platforms - a good command line interface. Some things are just plain easier to do from the command line, e.g. rename every file in a directory tree so there is an "A" before the file extension.
A useable regex would do the Windows CLI a world of good.
Now I am worried. In the first instance, I will usually fire up vi...if I'm programming fortran/C++/python/etc, then I'll usually wimp out and fire up xemacs.

H.
:set filetype=fortran
... or...
:set filetype=python
...
:set filetype=cpp

I'm sure there's some ~.vimrc function in there... but I'm very rusty with my Vimrc'ing. :(

Offline Hinfrance

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Re: Why I hate Apple and Windows
« Reply #8 on: September 29, 2009, 09:36:04 AM »
This is all very well, but have you ever tried to calibrate a monitor under Linux? I have, not managed it yet. Is there is 16 bit image editor for Linux? Again I've looked but not found it. Virtual Box doesn't run everything. So for the time being cash, functionality and the lack of weeks of time to learn an OS over again mean it has to be Windows. I'm not particularly happy about that (especially being stuck with the accursed Vista), but that's the way it is.

Our ancient laptop runs Freespire, and very nice it is too for non specialised stuff.
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The theory seems to be that as long as a man is a failure he is one of God's children, but that as soon as he succeeds he is taken over by the Devil. H.L Mencken.

Offline Oldboy

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Re: Why I hate Apple and Windows
« Reply #9 on: September 29, 2009, 10:07:56 AM »
Bring back GEM.  ;D

picsfor

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Re: Why I hate Apple and Windows
« Reply #10 on: September 29, 2009, 10:46:26 AM »
Anybody who thinks about it before buying a Mac is missing the point ;)

I am cool.  Therefore I use Macs.  Seemples.
You got me there Jonathan - cool is something that's never quite made it as far as me  :-[

Back to the original statement...

With regards to time lost on a Windows computer - i was referring to the omnipresent hour glass every time you try to multi task.
It is the nature of Microsoft's beast that true multi tasking is beyond it.

That's where i get my lost time. Whilst i appreciate that time management may over come the booting of a Windows computer - it can not over come the lag experienced when opening Photoshop , Lightroom etc - or even MS software such as Access or Excel. I've built my own desktops, servers - the fastest ran under Win 2K and was actually quite fast  - but that was because it was a dual processor machine and i'd customised the way the separate processors handled the work load - a feature removed with the introduction of XP!

Then we come to backing up. Time Machine backs up to an EHD with out interruption to what's going on - on the fly. Still searching for the Windows equivelant. Any similar back up system works like most virus checkers - they drain the system and create more instances of the dreaded hour glass.

I've worked with Microsoft since 1991 when Commodore imploded. I haven't made the swap on a whim. Macs really are faster and more efficient. Can't say how they rate against Linux as i've never really got the bug - that or i'm to lazy to go back to the old "hacking" days!

I do appreciate your argument though that people have to use MS at work and need compatibility, and that was half the reason we had Windows. I help a few self employed people with their computers so have to have a windows machine for that - but otherwise i would give it up for lent.

Hybridphotog

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Re: Why I hate Apple and Windows
« Reply #11 on: September 29, 2009, 12:11:30 PM »
This is all very well, but have you ever tried to calibrate a monitor under Linux? I have, not managed it yet.
This always grates with me. "Where's such a thing for Linux?" If you want it, you'll find it... it's out there. People have to remember, Linux isn't a 'rev-n-go' operating system.

I've just checked my monitors calibration using nothing more than a webpage or two, and "xgamma"...
http://www.linux.com/archive/articles/113936
Is there is 16 bit image editor for Linux? Again I've looked but not found it.
Gimp..
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1000&message=29550503

The bottom line is... Linux also doesn't appeal to some people, just as Windows doesn't appeal to some people, just as Apple doesn't appeal to some people.

The best operating system for anyone is the one that you feel most comfortable with. Isn't freedom of choice a good thing?

Offline Hinfrance

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Re: Why I hate Apple and Windows
« Reply #12 on: September 29, 2009, 03:07:17 PM »
Actually I have looked and looked for a way to calibrate my monitors with linux. The only way I have found is to refer linux to a windows calibration file on a dual boot machine. The calibration has to be done under windows. The ONLY way to calibrate a monitor is to use a colorimeter.

The article you have referred to above contains a fundamental error in the preface that makes the rest of it a complete waste of time: "To begin with, understand that all display calibration has one goal: appearing correct to your eye". This is, with respect, rubbish; the goal of monitor calibration is to ensure that anything you see on your monitor looks exactly the same on any other properly calibrated monitor. Effectively it should appear identical on any other sRGB device.

Later on the author admits that linux simply does not support colorimeters: "Sticking with this hardware-is-better-than-software theme, there are a few companies that make hardware display calibration tools; they look like three-legged spiders that stick to the surface of your monitor and feed info back through USB cables. To my knowledge, none of these devices is supported under Linux . . ." Indeed not.

I already have GIMP 2.6.7. It does not support my camera RAW files. Which is odd because UFRaw always used to, and I thought that it was built into GIMP now.

Don't get me wrong I am a linux fan, but it is simply not suited to photography or video work as it stands at the moment.

Picsfor, Linux just flies compared to windows, significantly faster. Example my antique laptop (750mhz and 512mb ram) used to take up to 8 minutes to boot up XP, compared to 45 seconds for Freespire linux.

And the windows backup I don't notice running is Syncback. I use the free version as I only ever back up data. http://www.2brightsparks.com/downloads.html
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The theory seems to be that as long as a man is a failure he is one of God's children, but that as soon as he succeeds he is taken over by the Devil. H.L Mencken.

picsfor

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Re: Why I hate Apple and Windows
« Reply #13 on: September 29, 2009, 11:41:00 PM »
Ultimately as is said - as much comes down to personal choice as available budget.
More than aware of how Linux flies over Windows.

I think i've rather turned Hughes rant into my rant and i didn't mean that to happen.
I think i've just had it with Windows and find it amazing that people can still defend it after trying something else!

Offline Hinfrance

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Re: Why I hate Apple and Windows
« Reply #14 on: September 30, 2009, 07:24:44 AM »
Ultimately as is said - as much comes down to personal choice as available budget.
More than aware of how Linux flies over Windows.

I think i've rather turned Hughes rant into my rant and i didn't mean that to happen.
I think i've just had it with Windows and find it amazing that people can still defend it after trying something else!

Simply the availability of applications - it is the de facto world standard. End of story.
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The theory seems to be that as long as a man is a failure he is one of God's children, but that as soon as he succeeds he is taken over by the Devil. H.L Mencken.

 

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