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Author Topic: Who knows about land rovers?  (Read 8498 times)

Offline Jonathan

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Who knows about land rovers?
« on: January 07, 2010, 08:29:37 AM »
So we have all this white stuff here in Kent.

It's not very deep (inch or two ATM) but it drifts, we have lots of little roads and most people can't drive.  I have a lowered suspension turbo nutter 170 bhp Octavia.  It's not too bad in the snow but it's a bit nervy when it starts sliding.

Next Saturday I have a wedding which I really need to get to and there's some buggering about in small roads and out of the way villages.

Would a Land Rover Defender cope with snow and ice pretty well?  I can rent one for £120 for the w/e and I charge enough that that is worth it :D  BUT I don't want to swap a car I know with pretty good traction control, a heater and killer sound system for a 4WD that may not have any of those.  It's a Defender 90 TDi if that makes a difference.  I guess that means it runs on chip fat.

Thoughts?

Oh, apparently if I'm really flush, the other alternative is an ML280 CDi.  I'm only vaguely aware what that is.


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Re: Who knows about land rovers?
« Reply #1 on: January 07, 2010, 09:16:35 AM »
In simple terms, a 4wd will always beat the 2wd for traction in these conditions.

A bit like comparing a £99 digital compact with your Blad for IQ - it's a no brainer.
A couple of guys at work have Defenders and they go out on these obstacle courses (Hill climbing i think they call it)where they try and break the car or find a place where it can't go.

They never seem to be very successful in that aim - and i've seen the pictures to prove it.

As for mod cons, i'm fairly sure the Defender is the 'commercial' version with various mod cons fitted - a Range Rover if you wish but built by Land Rover.
They do quite a good job up and over the Troodos Mountains in Cyprus.

It's just getting used to the 4wd - it is not for speed - but traction wise, it will not let you down. If memory serves, i think you have the selection of front 2wd, rear 2wd or full 4wd.
Mark (Angelfire) has a  land rover which can hold up to 12 people - offer him £120 see if he'll escort you for the day!

Offline alan1572

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Re: Who knows about land rovers?
« Reply #2 on: January 07, 2010, 09:52:22 AM »
i've never seen a Defender stuck at the side of a road.
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Offline Forseti

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Re: Who knows about land rovers?
« Reply #3 on: January 07, 2010, 09:54:53 AM »
Question - why do tractors have large tyres? Answer - part at least, is that the larger the tyre the less weight/downward force per square centimetre and let's face it, tractors are pretty heavy things. In short then, these things do not get bogged down in the fields. Not surprising therefore, that in the regular winter chaos that we in Germany experience it is your lowly VW Golf with it's compact footprint and more weight/downward force per square centimetre that seems to plough on regardless of conditions leaving other vehicles that one would, on the face of it at least, appear to be more designed for these conditions, slithering and sliding all over the place.

Whilst winter tyres aren't compulsory for us (our traffic laws basically say that one's vehicle should be suitably fitted for the prevailing conditions), if your vehicle is involved in an accident and doesn't have winter tyres fitted a large fine will be imposed - an even bigger fine if the accident results in impeding other traffic i.e. blocking the road.

My personal recommendation to you Jonathan is to stick with the car that you are used to driving. Without doubt, a 4 x 4 driven by an experienced driver used to things such as differential lock, high and low ratio gears etc should fair better than your average commuter driver in less than ideal road conditions, the converse is also true. A driver inexperienced in these types of vehicles leaves him/herself open to far greater risk.
« Last Edit: January 07, 2010, 09:56:53 AM by Forseti »
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Offline oRGie

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Re: Who knows about land rovers?
« Reply #4 on: January 07, 2010, 09:59:32 AM »
Defenders are permanent 4wd.

They have an extra gearbox called a transfer box, normal road use is high ratio, when the going gets tough you change down to low ratio, although for snow that shouldnt be needed, but if its really bad its there if you need it.

Tyres are important, if it has normal road tyres it wont be that much better at not sliding about than a car, but the 4wd will get you moving whereas a car will just sit and spin its wheel.

You want to take it really easy, just enough power to move without spinning the wheels.

If it has more aggresive tyres it will be better, but there are various types. Slightly more aggressive is good for sand and snow, very aggressive is for deep mud. (the treads are designed to be self cleaning, but the tread on mud tyres will fill up and become as smooth as road tyres)

A 90 is the shortwheelbase version, these can be tricky to control is slippery conditions, so be carefull on bends, but again if you take it easy it will be much ssafer than a 2wd car.

Defenders although permanent 4wd do have differentials, so like a car, when you have no traction 1 wheel will spin and the other does nothing. Defenders have a centre diff too, so if 1 wheel spins the other 3 will do nothing, but, there is a knob on the gearbox (next to the other gearsticks) to lock the centre differential, this means that at least 2 wheels will try and drive you when selected.

If you can get a discovery 2 or 3 (or range rover) most have traction control (some defender owners add extra front and back diff locks, but I doubt what you will hire will have this)

If you get the defender, drive smoothly, momentum (but not lots of speed! - just enough is what is needed) combined with the 4wd system will keep you moving where a car will just stop.

They can be addicitive ;)  but is like marmite  :beer:

The heaters are very good and some have great stereos too.

I have a discovery2 now, (had a defender and had olders series land rovers) it has a great stereo, good heater, very comfy seats, traction control, cruise control, air con (handy for demisting the windows) I changed to the disco for long journeys really, back and forth from portugal to uk.

Overall, I would say get the defender if a disco isnt available, you wont have to worry about getting stuck as much as in the car.  If the snow/ice is still really bad ask if they have snow chains and do please take warm clothes, sleeping bag, hot drink flask, food and charged mobile. (+ work gloves and shovel)

Offline oRGie

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Re: Who knows about land rovers?
« Reply #5 on: January 07, 2010, 10:05:50 AM »
the Ml btw is that merc ? I think it is, it's probably worse than your car, chelsea tractor, too heavy and will have tyres rated for speed rather than off road traction.

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Re: Who knows about land rovers?
« Reply #6 on: January 07, 2010, 10:44:22 AM »
yes - it is the Merc. Full Chelsea Tractor specs and appearance.
Good sound system and climate control though!

Offline greypoint

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Re: Who knows about land rovers?
« Reply #7 on: January 07, 2010, 10:56:10 AM »
Just trade in your octavia for a new Yeti - we've been dealing with skodas since 1979 and the best in ice and snow were always the much ridiculed rear engined jobs - only problem was the vast amount of piping needed to move water around the car which froze up all too often - ah, happy days :D.
All the weight at the back and rear wheel drive - it always bugged some people that they did so well in the RAC rallies - their backup team was of the one man and a bike variety and the used remoulds :2funny:

Offline Jonathan

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Re: Who knows about land rovers?
« Reply #8 on: January 07, 2010, 11:15:02 AM »
Trade in my VRS for something with a stupid name?  N-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o!!!!!

OK this is interesting.  £155 for a Defender for the w/e (it mysteriously went up when I rang), £350 for the week (there are lots of other things I could do) or.....£1,495 for a fully loaded 7 seater Discovery 3.9 V8 to keep.  Probably comes with its own petrol tanker.

Hmmmmmm.  Decisions.....
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Offline oRGie

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Re: Who knows about land rovers?
« Reply #9 on: January 07, 2010, 12:27:08 PM »
lol, yeah the v8 3.9 nice motor, but yes, probably around 16 - 18mpg and down to as little 8 or 9 off roading :)

If you do get the defender for the weekend, use the palms of your hand to stear when getting out of snowy ruts, keep your thumbs outside the wheel, when the wheels touch something with grip if the wheels arent straight it is easy to break your thumbs as the steering wheel will spin with some force ;)  dont suppose that would be great for taking pics  :beer:

Offline SimonW

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Re: Who knows about land rovers?
« Reply #10 on: January 07, 2010, 12:37:02 PM »
You say you've lowed suspension! If other vehicles have ruttred the snow, and/or the frost has made it hard, you'll really welcome the higher ground clearance of a 4x4. "Sporty" air dam front spoilers will either stop you or get wrecked or both.
Simon Warren
(in Dunning, Scotland)

Offline Jonathan

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Re: Who knows about land rovers?
« Reply #11 on: January 07, 2010, 12:49:33 PM »
You say you've lowed suspension! If other vehicles have ruttred the snow, and/or the frost has made it hard, you'll really welcome the higher ground clearance of a 4x4. "Sporty" air dam front spoilers will either stop you or get wrecked or both.


Yeajh I drove for about 4 hours the first time we had snow.  My biggest fear was hitting a rut of snow with the front skirt.  That could have spiled my whole day.

@oRGie - £1,400 to convert it to LPG ;)
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picsfor

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Re: Who knows about land rovers?
« Reply #12 on: January 07, 2010, 01:16:00 PM »
Trade in my VRS for something with a stupid name?  N-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o!!!!!
 or.....£1,495 for a fully loaded 7 seater Discovery 3.9 V8 to keep.  Probably comes with its own petrol tanker.

Why not get the Disco' for use now, and then when the weather improves flog it again!
You might lose a few hundred - but it'll be cheaper than hiring other vehicles - and their fuel bills won't be much cheaper...

Your accountant could probably find away to offset the loss!

Offline oRGie

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Re: Who knows about land rovers?
« Reply #13 on: January 07, 2010, 01:19:13 PM »
lpg isnt so great or cheap or usefull in many parts of europe where you cant use it in mountain passes, some motorways, ferries and chunnel dont like it, some stations have poor pumps that wont fill the tank etc..  good for certain circumstances, but useless for many others. You'd do better spending that extra 1400 on getting the td5 diesel version :)  Mind you, if its the V8 thats calling you, its an option I guess..   :tup:  :beer:

ed: yeah you could use it for a while, but if so choose carefully as they can get very expensive very quickly to maintain ;)

Offline Jonathan

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Re: Who knows about land rovers?
« Reply #14 on: January 07, 2010, 03:20:44 PM »
lpg isnt so great or cheap or usefull in many parts of europe where you cant use it in mountain passes, some motorways, ferries and chunnel dont like it, some stations have poor pumps that wont fill the tank etc..  good for certain circumstances, but useless for many others.

Yeah but the £1,400 conversion leaves the original petrol tank in place.  Whip out one of the 7 seats and put the LPG tank inside.  More money and they swap for a smaller petrol tank and mount outside so you're more limited.

But basically........it's a V8 :D
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