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Author Topic: Cheating or not?  (Read 4825 times)

Offline irv_b

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Cheating or not?
« on: December 19, 2009, 09:35:06 PM »
I don't know if anyone else saw this article or anything about this but I found it on another site
  http://www.suomenluonto.fi/bbcs-nature-photo-competition-judge-admits-winner-photo-investigated-due-to-fraud-allegations
I'm  not quite sure what to think after reading the piece we'll just have to wait for the outcome


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Offline alan1572

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Re: Cheating or not?
« Reply #1 on: December 19, 2009, 09:50:39 PM »
it just goes to show yet again that not everything is as it first appears
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Offline spinner

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Re: Cheating or not?
« Reply #2 on: December 20, 2009, 12:18:00 AM »
It's still a great photo though. It's also what a lot of the big time pros in the U.S. do. The go to farms with tame big cats and stage their shots.
And more, much more than this, I did it my way
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Offline Sandy

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Re: Cheating or not?
« Reply #3 on: December 20, 2009, 10:27:54 AM »
It is a great photo I went to the exhibition and it looked great.

Sandy

Offline Jonathan

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Re: Cheating or not?
« Reply #4 on: December 20, 2009, 11:19:07 AM »
It's still a great photo though.

Maybe.  Maybe not.

If that was an Alsatian dog jumping over a gate it would be a nice snap.  It's well lit and everything and he's caught the moment extremely well (though IIRC this was shot with a beam breaker).  Stick it onto a photo sharing site and it would get hundreds of "great shots".

But this is the BBC Wildlife Photographer of the year.  If it was a picture of an Alsatian it would come nowhere in that comp.  Take a look at the runners up.  Not even close.

It's an example of the subject making the picture much more important than it is.  To shoot this of a wild animal is just breath taking.  Especially when there are so few of these animals in the wild and this is fairly untypical behaviour for a wolf (see the expert's remarks that they suspect it's a fake because it's leaping the gate).  If this were a tame wolf leaping because it's told to then the picture is little better than a dog jumping over a gate.  (And yes, I know wolves are harder to work with than dogs but, you know...)

FWIW from a brief glance of the evidence on that site I don't believe it's tame.  I think this picture is real.  The scene with the tree line etc is similar but not close enough to be right and if the captive wolf had had a fight and damaged its ear then the keepers would know.  They would also know if somebody had propped a gate up in their enclosure and asked them to jump a wolf over it repeatedly while he photographed it.

BTW re pros photographing tame big cats......yes this happens.  i spent a week in a van with Andy Rouse while he was trying to capture a high quality still of a cheetah hunting.  He said that at the time nobody had ever managed it with a wild cheetah.  He spent weeks in that van for one shot (and AFAIK didn't get it) - when a few $000s would have guaranteed him the picture of a captive cat.  There's a difference.
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Offline Nemesis

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Re: Cheating or not?
« Reply #5 on: December 20, 2009, 12:07:40 PM »
Interesting...  Must confess when I saw the original photo it just didn't feel right, the jump doesn't look natural for a wild wolf; for that matter it doesn't look natural for a captive, but otherwise wild, wolf either - I know it was a triggered image, but it looks 'staged'.  There are so many European wolves in captivity its very difficult to try and identify individuals, notwithstanding that their colouration and markings change year on year.

Offline ABERS

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Re: Cheating or not?
« Reply #6 on: December 20, 2009, 12:25:21 PM »
Must agree with Nemesis about a certain 'feel' about the shot. I thougt someone had been down the local dog training centre and decided that a picture of Bonzo junping over a fence would look nice.

I know very little about wolves but I found it quite surprising that they would leap like a young horse over a gate, I would have thought they would just wriggle throught the bars like any other canine, unless they had been trained to do so. Aren't wolves pack animals anyway, perhaps the animal in question had been left behind! :legit:

Offline Jonathan

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Re: Cheating or not?
« Reply #7 on: December 20, 2009, 03:31:47 PM »
Actually there's an easy way to solve this (and my guess is that this is the piece of evidence they are waiting for).

This was shot on a 503cw on 6X6 film presumably from a 120 roll.  Let's see the negs for rest of the roll.

If it was shot for real on an infra red trap then you'd expect the others on the roll to be total misses - birds, branches, whatever tripping the beam.  Or there would only be one shot from that night.

If it's a fake then there is NO WAY he would have shot a single exposure.  You'd shoot at least a roll and probably 2 or 3 rolls to make sure you'd nailed it.
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Offline minky_monkey

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Re: Cheating or not?
« Reply #8 on: December 22, 2009, 05:32:20 PM »
Here was his second attempt..



 ;D

Offline Oldboy

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Re: Cheating or not?
« Reply #9 on: December 22, 2009, 10:24:02 PM »
Here was his second attempt..



 ;D

 Fantastic. :2funny: :2funny: :2funny:

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Re: Cheating or not?
« Reply #10 on: December 23, 2009, 08:51:54 AM »
I prefer the Minkey Monkey version.

You can see from the outset that it's real  ;D

Offline magicrhodes

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Re: Cheating or not?
« Reply #11 on: December 23, 2009, 09:06:24 AM »
Have to say that I'm with Jonathon on this if it is a tame wolf it is not a WILDlife shot...

skellum

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Re: Cheating or not?
« Reply #12 on: January 20, 2010, 01:15:58 PM »
Just heard on the news that the photograph has been disqualified.......... :legit:

Offline Forseti

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Re: Cheating or not?
« Reply #13 on: January 20, 2010, 01:35:51 PM »
Just heard on the news that the photograph has been disqualified.......... :legit:

Full statement here http://www.nhm.ac.uk/visit-us/whats-on/temporary-exhibitions/wpy/statement.jsp As I posted on another forum regarding this issue, I personally don't like the use of the word 'likely'. They either have conclusive evidence or they don't. Using the word 'likely' whilst the photographer (Rodriguez) continues to  strongly deny that the wolf in the image is a model still leaves the question open in my mind.
« Last Edit: January 20, 2010, 01:39:56 PM by Forseti »
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Offline Oldboy

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Re: Cheating or not?
« Reply #14 on: January 20, 2010, 02:13:36 PM »
Just heard on the news that the photograph has been disqualified.......... :legit:

Full statement here http://www.nhm.ac.uk/visit-us/whats-on/temporary-exhibitions/wpy/statement.jsp As I posted on another forum regarding this issue, I personally don't like the use of the word 'likely'. They either have conclusive evidence or they don't. Using the word 'likely' whilst the photographer (Rodriguez) continues to  strongly deny that the wolf in the image is a model still leaves the question open in my mind.

The use of the word likely stops them been sued. Mind you, when it was posted in a blog on photoradar, I did object that the photographer had used an remote setup and wasn't even present when it was taken. The whole point of wildlife photography is to be there to take the photo otherwise, where do you draw the line.  :o

 

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