What annoyed you today?

[Andrew]

OK, this is awkward. 

Occasionally one will speak what comes to their mind without a thought how it will be perceived, even I'm guilty of that one.  But that doesn't mean we should all fall out over it.  We have in the past lost a few members because of this kind of thing, and to be honest it will always happen, here and on any forum.  Sad but true I'm afraid.

A couple of things to note.  The Shoutbox has a little collapse button (top right) of it, so if anyone's not into reading what's in it can simply hide it away and ignore it.  And this site, well yes it is photography orientated, but the forum is a place for just about anything to be honest, hence the general boards etc.

I'm sure Abers didn't intend to offend anyone when he posted those comments, as normally this would as already suggested create some sort of debate in the forum, unfortunately this time it just pressed the detonator instead. 

All I can do is ask that anyone thinking of throwing in the towel here please reconsider, and lets get back to normal.  It's really sad when this happens, and just makes me want to shut the place down.

So please, Abers, JaneM, Daggers62, hang around, and see if we can sort this one out without having to leave.

And maybe that is the nub of it, new members are as important as old members.

But new members need to get to know the 'old' members by looking at their work, the contribution to the site etc before pre-judging them.
I'm not having a go at either JaneM or Daggers62 in this. It is always difficult to join a forum and learn everything and everyone.

All we can do is let time take its course...

[Mick]

And maybe that is the nub of it, new members are as important as old members.

But new members need to get to know the 'old' members by looking at their work, the contribution to the site etc before pre-judging them.
I'm not having a go at either JaneM or Daggers62 in this. It is always difficult to join a forum and learn everything and everyone.

All we can do is let time take its course...

Absolutely Andrew, could.t have worded that better myself.  Now, I'm not going to beg anyone to stay, but I would hope we're grown up enough to overcome this little hiccup.

Perhaps we should make more use of the [you] tag, something like,

Now Guest, whatever I said in my last post was in no way intended to offend you.     

[DigiDiva]

I cant find anything you have said offensive, did i miss it?

[Mick]

I cant find anything you have said offensive, did i miss it?

lol.. No DD, but I think you missed the bit about using the [you] tag, that's all.  It's the tag that echo's the name of whoever is reading the post.  

[Daggers62]

I seem to have made some sort of error. I thought this forum was photographically orientated.

I find it a little difficult to know if what's posted on here is of use or just the musings of some sad soul with nothing better to do. Don't worry I won't be back.

The above is the 2nd post that Abers put in the shoutbox. It would appear that this is an acceptable comment and should not be taken as an insult to all members who use the shoutbox but should in fact start a reasonable debate. It is one thing having an opinion to spark a debate but quite clearly it is an insult and is not open for a debate but a reaction.

The length of service that Abers has put into this forum matched against my approx 4 weeks service gives him absolutely no right whatsoever to insult anyone. He may be a great photographer but if that turns you into a sarcastic, belittling, holier than thou person, I'd rather be a crap photographer but a better person.

I appreciate those comments that have asked me to stay but if I did then I would be all over any future posts made by Abers that I considered offensive, as such it would merely prolong the departure. Thank you to those that made us feel welcome. I have removed all my uploaded photos and would ask Mick to delete my account.

Regards
Paul

[Beaux Reflets]

I seem to have made some sort of error. I thought this forum was photographically orientated.

I find it a little difficult to know if what's posted on here is of use or just the musings of some sad soul with nothing better to do. Don't worry I won't be back.

The above is the 2nd post that Abers put in the shoutbox. It would appear that this is an acceptable comment and should not be taken as an insult to all members who use the shoutbox but should in fact start a reasonable debate. It is one thing having an opinion to spark a debate but quite clearly it is an insult and is not open for a debate but a reaction.

The length of service that Abers has put into this forum matched against my approx 4 weeks service gives him absolutely no right whatsoever to insult anyone. He may be a great photographer but if that turns you into a sarcastic, belittling, holier than thou person, I'd rather be a crap photographer but a better person.

I appreciate those comments that have asked me to stay but if I did then I would be all over any future posts made by Abers that I considered offensive, as such it would merely prolong the departure. Thank you to those that made us feel welcome. I have removed all my uploaded photos and would ask Mick to delete my account.

Regards
Paul

I guess in some way we are all sad souls - no members do not take that the wrong way - I think taking generalised comments as being targeted ones is very easy to do in a running commentry Shoutbox and care should be taken upon how things are expressed in it, as it reflects upon the poster.

Enough said - I hope all three of you return 

[donoreo]

I think part of this situation is what can occur online in forums and in email quite easily compared to actually talking to someone.  When you are speaking and you make a comment it depends often on how you say something.  You give a little emphasis here or an inflection there and people know what you mean.  Online and in email you cannot really do that.  I know I have accidentally offended someone this way before.  In my head I meant one thing but it did not translate well in written word. 

Now to this in particular I do not think Abers meant the sad soul comment specifically to mean Jane, I think he meant it generically.  That was how I read it.  I was confused last night when I saw people getting upset and I had to go read things over three of four times to find the "insulting" comment.  I did not see any reason for anyone to be upset.  I do hope Abers returns and let's us know if that is how he meant it and we can all move on from this. 

[donoreo]

Now Guest, whatever I said in my last post was in no way intended to offend you. 

I am offended by that 

[Markulous]

Well, I for one, having seen the original Shoutbox comment regard it as a deliberate provocative insult with absolutely no intention of discussing anything. Compounded by nothing approaching an apology in the follow-ups. Oh, (moderated....) the word you want is libel - slander is the spoken word not the written!

[JaneM]

Im sorry but impolite was abers stating that anyone talking in the chat box about anything other than photography was 'sad and had nothing better to do' and that the chat box post I had made was ' inane chatter and totally irrevelant uninteresting personal information'

I really do not feel I took this out of context, if ABERS does not like chat in the 'chat box' that is not centred around photography then he had two options...A. Don't read it, or ignore it..it really was doing no harm, if we can only talk photography how on each are we supposed to get to know each other?  B. If he felt a debate was needed a post could have been made, without the need to be rude.

My response to ABERS comments was no more speaking my mind than his original post, where had he  said it in jest or 'out of context' he would/could have posted to say so, instead another rude comment was made, which quite clearly show's that the intent and comment was meant in the way it was wrote, as a man who speaks his mind I am sure he would have said so then rather than continue with the sad and nothing to do comment. I also find it strange that abers expected me to take the comment, yet when I replied saying I took offence to it, he stated he was leaving...if you are going to speak your mind, you have to take others doing so back.

I have not meant to cause arguments arising from this, but really feel strongly that no matter how long someone has been a member, or how good a photographer they are, it does not condone rudeness...I have teenagers and work in a hospital to get enough of that 

There is a fine line between having an opinion, speaking your mind and being rude, and abers crossed that twice. Each to their own of course but maybe had you been chatting and someone said that directly afterwards you may feel differently.


Good luck with the forums in the future, and happy photographing all
Jane x

[Andrew]

if you are going to speak your mind, you have to take others doing so back.
Jane x

Now I do not know the extent of the conversation in the shoutbox - and TBH, I'm not going to look either.

I know Abers better than Jane & Paul, but what ever was said (and I have no doubt Alan said what he meant, he's never held back before), the above quote from Jane is a valid one.

Of course, there is another angle that maybe we're missing.

Maybe it's just Alan's time.

People join forums, people engage in forums, people leave forums. It happens all the time. Maybe the forum, its membership and Alan have moved on from its orginal make up to the point where the forum no longer fits in with his photographic needs any more.

It happens.

Like others, I know of many names that no longer frequent this forum, I still keep in touch with several of them through other means. For many, they just don't have the time to participate, for others their interests have changed or their photography has moved on to a level at which they are happy and the help gained from this forum through their learning process has achieved its goal.

It is the nature of the beast. The only issue is how the forum goes forward... Minus 3 members, 2 members, 1 member or with all members still intact.

[deetus]

Well, I for one, having seen the original Shoutbox comment regard it as a deliberate provocative insult with absolutely no intention of discussing anything. Compounded by nothing approaching an apology in the follow-ups. Oh, and you ignoramus, the word you want is libel - slander is the spoken word not the written!

This is the sort of comment that helps no one and is useless if the so called ignoramus has left the site.

I will miss Abers for the knowledge that he was willing to share with everyone and the information he passed on about photographic events and indeed photography websites.

[donoreo]

if you are going to speak your mind, you have to take others doing so back.
Jane x

Now I do not know the extent of the conversation in the shoutbox - and TBH, I'm not going to look either.

I know Abers better than Jane & Paul, but what ever was said (and I have no doubt Alan said what he meant, he's never held back before), the above quote from Jane is a valid one.

Of course, there is another angle that maybe we're missing.

Maybe it's just Alan's time.

People join forums, people engage in forums, people leave forums. It happens all the time. Maybe the forum, its membership and Alan have moved on from its orginal make up to the point where the forum no longer fits in with his photographic needs any more.

It happens.

Like others, I know of many names that no longer frequent this forum, I still keep in touch with several of them through other means. For many, they just don't have the time to participate, for others their interests have changed or their photography has moved on to a level at which they are happy and the help gained from this forum through their learning process has achieved its goal.

It is the nature of the beast. The only issue is how the forum goes forward... Minus 3 members, 2 members, 1 member or with all members still intact.

I agree.  It could be.  We all see it things differently, are all different people with different needs and wants.  When we no longer fit with a group, it is time to move on. 

[DigiDiva]

Can we move on now? I think everything has been said that was needed to be said. If the 3 members choose to leave, that's their option. We have said they are more than welcome, thats all we can say.

Now.....what else annoyed you today?

[Andrew]

People telling me what to do 

My assignment (it is only the one Mick) - it's tediously dull.

It's about social rules etc - but i'll give another take of how they could've done it, as opposed to how they done it...

Compare and contrast the works of Banksy as opposed to 'ordinary' street graffitti. - Yep, you can talk about that.

The OU opted for:
Compare and contrast the way in which the paint dried when used by Banksy as opposed to the 'ordinary' graffitti artist.

Soul destroying