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Author Topic: Legal question  (Read 1756 times)

Offline Soodge

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Legal question
« on: May 11, 2015, 05:53:28 PM »
Hello everyone. I have a legal question that I hope someone might be able to help with.

2 years ago, a friend of mine asked me to take some pictures of her newborn. Her husband had a daughter from a previous relationship who was included in the shoot. With their permission, and the permission of his daughters mum, the photos were posted to my facebook page that I have set up for my photography business.

Unfortunately, about 18 months ago, my friend went through a very acrimonious divorce and they are no longer together. Her ex-husband has been in touch with me, demanding that I remove any pictures of his daughter within 24 hours or he will seek legal action.

Regrettably, I never got him or his ex's permission in writing as he was a friend and I didn't feel it was necessary for model release or an official contract (lesson learnt there!). Does he have any right to demand that the pictures are removed even though he gave permission, albeit verbally?

Any thoughts you might have would be greatly appreciated.


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Offline Beaux Reflets

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Re: Legal question
« Reply #1 on: May 11, 2015, 06:01:34 PM »
I would simply follow his request and remove the pictures concerned..

If a person wanted to change their mind even after previously signing a model release I would try and honour such a request.  ;)
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Offline Hinfrance

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Re: Legal question
« Reply #2 on: May 11, 2015, 06:03:51 PM »
Is there any point in antagonising people even if the law is on your side, especially if they are, as this gentleman seems to be, rather socially challenged? I'd just remove them and have done with it.
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Offline Soodge

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Re: Legal question
« Reply #3 on: May 11, 2015, 06:25:45 PM »
Completely agree. Except he had no issues over the last 18 months and is only doing this to cause problems and try to exert his authority. However, I do feel the need for an easy life! Love the socially challenged comment - you've hit the nail on the head there!
« Last Edit: May 11, 2015, 06:27:55 PM by Soodge »
Great photography is about depth of feeling.......not depth of field! [Peter Adams]

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Offline jinky

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Re: Legal question
« Reply #4 on: May 11, 2015, 08:42:43 PM »
All sound advice. Even when I have the protection of a contract / model release I would bow to any such request as it is not worth the aggro or potentially bad publicity.

Offline Oldboy

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Re: Legal question
« Reply #5 on: May 11, 2015, 08:59:35 PM »
All sound advice. Even when I have the protection of a contract / model release I would bow to any such request as it is not worth the aggro or potentially bad publicity.

Wise words jinky.  :tup:

If it was me I'd say sue me!  >:(

Offline Simple

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Re: Legal question
« Reply #6 on: May 11, 2015, 10:49:12 PM »
I find it sad that people think they can just threaten other people by saying they will sue. It just shows their limited knowledge of our legal system. Or they are filthy rich. I am with Oldboy and say if it was me sue me, and have a good laugh....
If you want to get back at him you could say that of course you will take these pictures down, but you gave him a discount on your services for the chance of advertising on your site. Ask for another £150 for the extra work involved of taking the images off and replacing them.

Offline DigiDiva

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Re: Legal question
« Reply #7 on: May 12, 2015, 05:06:06 AM »
Interesting thread.
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Offline Beaux Reflets

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Re: Legal question
« Reply #8 on: May 12, 2015, 08:59:05 AM »
While I am all for making money and good business ethics, there is also a third person involved being that of the daughter. My concern would be to reduce as much potential ammunition for her sake.  ;)
« Last Edit: May 12, 2015, 10:16:08 AM by Beaux Reflets »
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Offline Soodge

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Re: Legal question
« Reply #9 on: May 12, 2015, 09:34:02 AM »
Hello all - thanks so much for your responses. Consensus seems to be to remove the photos.

I've decided to let it play out today and see what happens - he's given me 24 hours to remove and I haven't yet. I don't think he will 'sue' me as he just doesn't have the money -  especially over something so petty. But I do think he might try reporting it to Facebook. I'll make my decision then. He has hidden comments that he made on the images (which I can still see as Admin of the page) such as 'put the photo up of the hands and feet' and 'brought a tear to my eye' bso I can prove he was fine with it until now.

Would any of you still remove photos after a 2 year 'cooling off' period?

He clearly doesn't to want to enter a dialogue about this as he has blocked me and made it impossible for me to reply to his message.

I like the idea of charging him to remove them - I actually didn't charge them for the shoot at the time given that they were friends. I just charged them for the images and products that they decided they wanted. As such, they got a HUGE discount from me. But as I have no way of contacting him, I guess I can't even offer that!

Andy - just to clarify, the daughter probably knows nothing about this. She is his daughter from a previous relationship and my friend (who was married to him) does not see her at all. The daughter's mum had authorised the use of the photos on my marketing materials.
Great photography is about depth of feeling.......not depth of field! [Peter Adams]

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Offline jinky

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Re: Legal question
« Reply #10 on: May 12, 2015, 10:02:29 AM »

Would any of you still remove photos after a 2 year 'cooling off' period?



Yes I would. Seriously if you want to make money from photography you need a rock solid reputation with no-one out there sniping at you. It`s just not worth it - surely you have other images that show your worth that make these expendible. Alright in law he has no rights would probably lose a legal case unless you were shown to be showing them in some sort of derogatory manner (highly unlikely) but I say again do you want someone out there bad mouthing you that could make up anything  - potentially even more harmful as they are child images and he is one of the parents. 2 years , 5 years , 10 years - if a parent came to me or a a bride or groom and said look we`ve split up and I don`t want those images on your site any more they would be gone. Given you were not paid and did not have a contract / model form in place even more so. Found this on an online guide to photographers rights in uk
"
Yes you can take pictures of children without their parents permission, but as long as you are not invading the child’s privacy. And as long as your photos are for private use only.
You cannot give children’s photographs any commercial use, unless you have a model release signed by the minor’s parents or legal guardians. This includes family snapshots and other portraits of the sort where the children figure is an important and recognizable subject in the picture."

You are arguably utilising the child`s photos  commercially by using them as advertising - so again I would say take them down. Why seek trouble / expense of a law suit if he did decide to be awkward. The only thing saying it maybe is having her mum`s permission but do get this in writing from her and then reply to him stating that you already have her mum`s permission in writing.

Offline Soodge

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Re: Legal question
« Reply #11 on: May 12, 2015, 02:10:52 PM »
Thanks Jinky - good advice.
Great photography is about depth of feeling.......not depth of field! [Peter Adams]

www.sjlphotography.co.uk - it's a work in progress!

Offline Graham

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Re: Legal question
« Reply #12 on: May 12, 2015, 03:32:15 PM »
  Just take them down and move on.
  He could take legal action but I suspect it would be costly to him and get him nowhere.
  If they were of a newborn who is now 2 years old then there will be no identity issues as the child will be unrecognisable.
 


PS If it's a business shouldn't the pictures have been updated by now? :tup:
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Offline Soodge

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Re: Legal question
« Reply #13 on: May 12, 2015, 11:41:27 PM »
Actually, I do more corporate photography these days which I don't put on that page but there are newer ones on there. It's just an old album that's still there.  And no, the photos in question weren't of the newborn. It was the newborns half sister who was in some of the photos with the baby. She was 4 at the time so you can tell it is her.

In any case - they are gone now after the advice from people on here. I just want an easy life really. Sticks in my craw a little bit as I know it's he's only doing this to be awkward but I've got more important things to worry about. As people have said, reputation is important and knowing what he is like, I am sure he would have no problem trying to rip mine to shreds!

Thanks everyone - really appreciate your advice and pearls of wisdom!
Great photography is about depth of feeling.......not depth of field! [Peter Adams]

www.sjlphotography.co.uk - it's a work in progress!

 

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