Camera Craniums

Photography Equipment => DSLR Cameras => Topic started by: oRGie on October 19, 2009, 04:50:06 PM

Title: 5DII vs 7D
Post by: oRGie on October 19, 2009, 04:50:06 PM
5DII vs 7D...  Been pondering over which direction to take, decided to move up a level from my 40D, probably in a couple of months to see what happens with pricing, the thing is after weighing up the 2 cameras, it has become quite a difficult decision.  Prices are allmost the same now..

If the 5DII had a pop up flash and speedlite transmitter it would be a simple choice, I think :)

I decided it is time to improve the lenses I use, so the 5DII with a 24-105L would be perfect to start off, the 7D loses out because there is no L lens that covers that very usefull (for me) range (on the crop sensor body), its either 16-35 or 17-40.. I cant see the ef-s 15-85 being up to L standards, shame, as that would be the perfect focul range for what I like..... but the 7D is a very versatile package, with the flash stuff, faster pic rate, twin processors (they must have done that for a reason, the next 5D incarnation will be interesting),

So I think I have decided to go the 7D route anyway and live with having to use 2 lenses to cover my favourite range. Still waiting for the 15-85 to be reviewed so I can see what the results are like..

So I would appreciate all your thoughts on this..  yes both would be nice lol   :beer:
Title: Re: 5DII vs 7D
Post by: picsfor on October 19, 2009, 05:00:15 PM
I think ultimately it comes down to what you like to photograph.

I'm not a wildlife or sports person. So i don't need bucket loads of fps. But if you are - then the 7D is for you.
If you're more into portraits, landscapes and similar - then you will gain from the 5D MkII.

I already owned a 580ExII so not having a flash was not a consideration. The speedlite transmitter would have been nice though.

Drop Martin (Minkey Monkey) a line and see what his monkey thinks of it - he has one. He's also had a quick go with my 5D MkII so he would be able to give you a fair assessment.

Though ultimately i think you're talking about a choice that's akin to dark grey or light grey!
Title: Re: 5DII vs 7D
Post by: oRGie on October 19, 2009, 05:15:37 PM
yeah its not easy..  I use my camera and will own just one, for lots of different things, so landscape, portrait, live bands, houses, wildlife and motorsport when i get the chance, so you see in certain circumstances both cameras will be a compromise :)  and both do both very well, just as you say the 5D excells in some areas, FF loveliness, but the 7D also excells in some area's..  I like a pop up flash even though I have flash guns, because I use the camera for so many different things I won't allways have the flashgun with me, I need to travel light, body and one lens only at times, hence why I like the usefullness of zoom lenses, again I know primes would give best results, but that much kit on a trip isnt going to be feasable....

I would live without the pop up if I end up feeling the other factors are more important...  hmmmm

I think my gut is saying that the 7D would be the better camera as an all rounder, but then I havent had use of a 5D to judge whats its like to use as any everyday/situation camera  :doh:
Title: Re: 5DII vs 7D
Post by: anglefire on October 19, 2009, 07:13:55 PM
Not forgetting that the Hi ISO of the 5DII almost makes the pop up flash redundant!!

If you generally don't need very long lenses (Ie up to say 400mm with crop factor taken into account), I would personally go for full frame.

One of the reasons is that when taking shots of people, in particular, and using fast lenses, the DOF control can't be beaten!

Title: Re: 5DII vs 7D
Post by: Al Birmingham on October 20, 2009, 10:44:54 AM
Still living with and loving my 5D but just thought I'd say that I never miss the pop up flash. Even an older 420EX speedlight gives a far better result than the pop up, the 580EX is better still. After seeing the results from good flash guns I never even think about pop ups, even when using my old 20D.
As has been said, good high ISO goes a long way towards negating the need for flash - but not all the the way. I still use flash when shooting outdoors practically all the time, it's indoor stuff that I often turn it off for when using window light can be so much better.

As for which camera? Let your intended use decide. If you need the extra 'zoom' a cropped sensor can offer or fast shutter speeds go 7D, if not, go 5D mkII - simples!
Title: Re: 5DII vs 7D
Post by: minky_monkey on October 20, 2009, 07:25:28 PM
In all honesty, given then fact that you cover wildlife and motorsports amongst your reportoire, then I`d be more inclined to go down the 7D route.  Given the FPS rate, and the added reach that you get with a crop sensor, it`s going to tick more boxes overall.

The noise level between the two is pretty similar, I used mine at ISO 4000 at the weekend to shoot some football and it only needed a little processing.

I`ve still not got around to using the speedlight transmitter yet though!

Title: Re: 5DII vs 7D
Post by: oRGie on October 20, 2009, 09:52:10 PM
I appreciate the feedback guys  :beer:

However, I'm still stuck for a decision lol and I think it boils down to latest tech vs highest quality.

Whenever I see images from FF cameras I very often think there is something more to them than crop sensor images, I mean you get great crop sensor images, dont get me wrong, but the FF images just seem to have something about them...

But, I do realise this is down to lenses also (and user skill of course)

What i would love to see is 2 photos, using the same lens, same subject, lighting etc, one from 5D one from 7D, a pic of something real world, fun fair colours and detail would be good, not asking for much am I  :2funny:

As I do need/want to upgrade my lenses (all ef-s btw), this maybe helps my decision as I cant just go out get a 5DII and a full range of L series..  I'm thinking to get the 7D now, resist the tempting 15-85 focul range of the new ef-s, use what I have allready while I replace them one by one as funds become available with L series.. perhaps then in a couple of years I will have a set of EF L lenses and my next upgrade could be to FF...hmm

(maybe even pick up a second hand 5Dmk1 at some point if a bargain comes along as a second body)

I have a feeling that the 7D price will go down maybe as much as £200 before too long   :legit:

Title: Re: 5DII vs 7D
Post by: picsfor on October 20, 2009, 10:12:35 PM
given the specs of the 1D Mk IV i'm thinking the 7D looks rather good value...

If you only (please don't take that the wrong way)have ef-s lenses i think you should go for the 7D.
Reason being the 5D MkII chews up and spits out any lens not of the highest quality.

Example - 100mm f.28 macro. Great lens, has worked extremely well on my 30D and 40D along with the 5D and 1D MkIIs, but on the 5D MkII i'm noting it struggles a bit. 21mp FF really does love to highlight not only your, but the lenses deficiencies with ease. This is an EF lens - but the simple fact is it is being 'tolerated' by the 5D MkII not embraced - really.

You really do need glass of L quality, whatever the make, to please the 5D MkII. I was lucky - i had 3 L class lenses covering the 17mm - 200mm range and oddly enough the 50mm f1.8 seems to work more than adequately as well. So as it stands - i'm thinking of trading my 100mm f2.8 macro in for the L version (the IS is not an issue here just compatibility).

So i'm now coming off the fence and saying get the 7D!


 
Title: Re: 5DII vs 7D
Post by: oRGie on October 20, 2009, 11:37:35 PM
not taken wrong way at all, I agree and its the same conclusion I have come to, allmost lol :)   The lenses I have are all good, but, I know they are not the best and dont give me the IQ I would love to have, I have known that for a while..  Soo, as I want to upgrade soonish (price watching right now), it comes down to either getting 7 now and start replacing lenses, then next time round be ready to go FF, or get 5D now and 24-105, live with old ef75-300 for a few months and get another, 70-200 or 100-400 and at some point a 16-35 etc..  Basically getting the 5D now means living without the focul range I have now in my lenses :)

I have wanted to move to FF for a long while, but maybe a bit more patience is needed, i know I would really enjoy the 7D anyway, had the 40D for a couple of years and am itching for a new toy  :legit:
Title: Re: 5DII vs 7D
Post by: anglefire on October 20, 2009, 11:41:49 PM
Quote
Whenever I see images from FF cameras I very often think there is something more to them than crop sensor images, I mean you get great crop sensor images, dont get me wrong, but the FF images just seem to have something about them...

I couldn't agree more - but  I can't really put my finger on it!

But the 7 will be a fine camera - or you could go for the MkIV. And really break the bank!
Title: Re: 5DII vs 7D
Post by: minky_monkey on October 20, 2009, 11:56:20 PM
If you only (please don't take that the wrong way)have ef-s lenses i think you should go for the 7D.
Reason being the 5D MkII chews up and spits out any lens not of the highest quality.


TBH, even on the 7 I notice that I need to upgrade my Tamron 28-70 2.8.  When looking at pictures taken using my 70-200 f4 L IS, there`s a noticable difference in quality.  Now, I`ve got to play about with the micro adjustment at some point to see whether that improves things, I`ll let you know.

It may just be one of those things on high MP cameras.

And I agree, compared to the Mk IV the 7`s a bargain!!
Title: Re: 5DII vs 7D
Post by: oRGie on October 21, 2009, 12:06:11 AM
Right now I feel like robbing a bank, or a canon factory :)

Just stumbled on this comparison site, it has just what I was looking for. Interesting that to my eye the portrait examples show a sweeter image from the 5D to my eye ?  but, it works for portrait catching beauty, the 7D image looks like it would portray a more realistic image, think wrinkled old man on bench type shot or war correspondant :)

http://www.imaging-resource.com/IMCOMP/COMPS01.HTM

same lens used and full exif
Title: Re: 5DII vs 7D
Post by: picsfor on October 21, 2009, 12:08:35 AM
if you can be patient for another fortnight i may have the answer - hopefully.

If Martin is able to attend the Abers meet - we will both be present with a 70-200 f4 L IS lens, but one of us will have a 5D MkII and the other will have a 7D.

We could, for the benefit of Mr Kite, take some comparison pictures and post after the meet. I believe this meet should have a choice of some wildlife to photograph as well as some landscape/ portrait stuff. That should give you your comparative pictures.
Title: Re: 5DII vs 7D
Post by: oRGie on October 21, 2009, 12:14:57 AM
in fact the still life images are very telling, look at the full size of each, look at the area around the bottom of the neck on the beer bottle with the olive oil with chili's in, the black on the 5d is deeper, bit like what a ps adjustment would do to the 7d image, but the 5d image is smoother, the labels as seen on the 7d image seem to have retained more detail which makes them look less luxurious, but overall i have to say the difference is quite minimal....
Title: Re: 5DII vs 7D
Post by: oRGie on October 21, 2009, 12:18:42 AM
That would be great :) thanks..  yes I will be patient, I have seen the 7D start to appear for 1499 allready (devon cameras)  :beer:
Title: Re: 5DII vs 7D
Post by: picsfor on October 21, 2009, 12:20:46 AM
all we need now is to be sure Martin can attend the Abers meet  :tup:
Title: Re: 5DII vs 7D
Post by: oRGie on October 21, 2009, 12:28:04 AM
looking at the iso 800 shots the difference in noise becomes pretty obvious  :doh:
Title: Re: 5DII vs 7D
Post by: oRGie on October 23, 2009, 12:19:50 AM
pricing is getting interesting, I just saw at wilkinson camera's (anyone dealt with them ?) have this offer

CANON EOS 7D & EF-S 15-85MM F3.5/5.6 IS - FREE CANON 580EX FLASH FOR A LIMITED TIME ONLY £1999  :D

Now not that I want the kit and allready have a flash, but it sais a lot to me about where the pricing is headed.. wex have the seperate lens and camera listed for £50 cheaper than the kit price lol

My guess is it could go as low as 1200 for the camera and under 500 for the new 15-85, tbh doesnt inspire rushing out to buy one now  :legit:

On another note, i got to handle a 5DII today, I was quite suprised to find its more or less the same size as my 40D, last time I held a 5D I had a 400D and the 5D felt huge lol
Title: Re: 5DII vs 7D
Post by: picsfor on October 23, 2009, 09:32:47 AM
yes, i'd put the 5D MkII as similar in size to the 40D.

The menu system is similar as well - you would soon pick it up. Just need to read the manual re-differences.
Oddly enough much about both cameras is similar, until you come to performance - then i'm afraid you notice quite a difference between that Digic 3 Crop 10mp sensor and that Digic IV 21mp FF sensor.
Title: Re: 5DII vs 7D
Post by: oRGie on October 24, 2009, 07:17:10 PM
Jeez, after much soul searching and pondering I am finally starting to see through the hazy fog of equipment lust lol

I have been weighing up all the various alternative routes and trying to pin myself down as to what I really want and that is FF, there I said it lol..

Now To get there I need to upgrade lenses, so the money I was ear marking for the 7D body would nicely cover the cost of a 17-40 F4 L and 24-105 F4 L..  I realised that there is no good reason to sell my 40D right now and get a 7D as I would be using the same lenses and all i would achieve is bigger files, more or less same IQ and lots of funky new gadgets, video, wireless flash blah blah, none of which is going to give the same enjoyment as using those 2 L lenses even on my 40D.

So then a bit more saving and when the time is right I'll get a 5DII ....   Hows that sound for a plan ?   :legit:
Title: Re: 5DII vs 7D
Post by: picsfor on October 24, 2009, 09:48:09 PM
personally - that's what i would do - but then i would say that because that was the route it took.

17-40 f4 L, 24-105 f4 IS, 70-200 f4 IS L with a 2x converter for good measure.
The 50mm f1.8 plastic fantastic also does extremely well on a FF although, as i have said, my 100 mm f2.8 macro suffers a bit under certain conditions.

MY first body was a 30D and then i bought a 40D for when i had to do a wedding (needed the redundancy). 40D was sold as part of the deal that allowed me to get the 5D MkII. 30D sits in its box already for appreciation by some one else - but the wife won't let me sell it until i can afford another 'spare' body that provides similar specs to the 5D MkII.

If you get a 17-40 L and 24-105L and do not notice a real difference in the quality of your images, then i would say that the 5D MkII would also be a waste. A real eye opener getting the 17-40 and 24-105.
Title: Re: 5DII vs 7D
Post by: oRGie on October 25, 2009, 08:52:31 PM
Thanks for the feedback  :beer:

Looking at 2nd hand 5DII's over here, there are a few for around 900 - 1500 euros, trying to get a nice condition one with box and bits and pieces for around 1000 and I've found a shop called hdew cameras with the 24-105 on special offer for 725 pounds :)

The camera's I'm looking at are on a portuguese 2nd stuff site so I can go and check the cameras before buying. Is there anything in particular with the 5DII that I need to watch for ?
(I will of course look for any sensor cleaning damage)

 :legit:
Title: Re: 5DII vs 7D
Post by: picsfor on October 25, 2009, 10:21:54 PM
Those prices you are quoting are not for a 5D Mk II - no way. 5D maybe - but not a Mk II.

If they are genuine prices for a Mk II then i'd like to know what is wrong with them!
Title: Re: 5DII vs 7D
Post by: oRGie on October 25, 2009, 10:41:51 PM
The price is good eh ;)  Cheapest brand new I've seen so far is £1820..  I am talking with a lady that wanted 1350 euros but is close to accepting 1100 euros cash (£1000), (she just asked if my 1100 final offer was cash) it is a 5DII, with box and bits and pieces, even with some guarantee left as its minimum 2 years here in europe :)

Cheapest new kit price for 5DII and 24-105 I've seen is £2391, so if that hdew offer on the lens is genuine for £725 I will be quite a happy bunny lol

Is there a menu option to see the total shutter actuations on the 5DII ?

Title: Re: 5DII vs 7D
Post by: picsfor on October 26, 2009, 12:10:55 AM
i seem to remember reading something saying there is - i'll have to have a look for you - though i wouldn't be wanting one with any more than 30k actuations - given how new they are.

I'd ask to take some shots with it before parting with cash and walking out.
Title: Re: 5DII vs 7D
Post by: oRGie on October 26, 2009, 12:37:47 AM
Thanks..  Yeah i will ask for the battery to be charged when I see them so i can test it out before parting with cash :)

I may find there is something not right about some I have seen, I was also a little suprised to them so cheap allready  :o   I only stumbled on this looking for lenses, I'm still planning on sticking with the 40D for a while and start replacing lenses ready for a move to FF, so I'm not too fussed if a good body doesnt come along just yet.
Title: Re: 5DII vs 7D
Post by: oRGie on October 26, 2009, 11:09:00 PM
Apologies in advance, if your bored with my ramblings, hit the back button  :beer:

Well I have decided on a final route :)  I'm going to get a 17-40 and 24-105, no new camera body at the moment, then the 40D will be my point and shoot when I get a FF body sometime next year I guess.

As I have the 40D and sig 17-70 on a second hand site, if that sells I think I am going to just get a 50D to live with the 18-200is as second body, spare, point and shoot duties sort of thing once I get a FF body. In the meantime I can enjoy better glass with it..

Thanks for the feedback again, it has been very usefull and has hopefully set me on the right track to well spent spondoolies and a step up in my photography :)
Title: Re: 5DII vs 7D
Post by: picsfor on October 27, 2009, 06:05:22 AM
Nothing to apologise for.

If spending a week or two chatting here helps you crystalise where you want to go with your photography with best way to maximise the value of your hard earned pound or Euro when acquiring new kit
- then surely it has all been worth while.

I would recommend getting the 17-40 as your first lens if you don't have quite enough to get them together - really sharp lens and so useful for indoor shots such as those in a studio.
Title: Re: 5DII vs 7D
Post by: oRGie on October 29, 2009, 04:53:56 PM
ahem lol...  so after quite a succesfull time selling all my gear I now have no camera at all!!!!   most of the kit around 2 years old, so happy that I made a profit on my 10-20 siggy, broke even on camera & grip (thanks to buying in HK) & 17-70 :)

For various reasons of international borders and silly pricing, shipping problems, warranty worries and as the 50D is still quite expensive here I have decided to put my well earned beer tokens into a 7D body instead. So that will become my point and shoot lol when I get some EF lenses and a FF camera at some point :)

I'm expecting it to arrive sometime next week, fingers crossed, that can sometimes mean months at stores here, but I shall stay positive until mid next week, by then I will start to panic over the shots I have missed  :legit:

Then I can start to collect EF lenses one by one to be ready for when I can afford a FF body. I would never buy an EF-s lens again and I wish I had bitten the bullet and got EF the first time round, oh well live and learn I guess.. 

Now then, seeing as I only have one lens and a flashgun and some other bits and bobs holding me to canon, whats all this fuss over nikon, any good ?   :legit:
 :beer:
 :beer:
Title: Re: 5DII vs 7D
Post by: anglefire on October 29, 2009, 07:00:00 PM
I only bought 1 EFs lens - and that was the excellent EF-s 60mm Macro - and it was bought purely on cost grounds - the 100mm was a fair bit more. Of course, I now wish that I had gone for it!

From when I first got my 350D, I knew that I would want to go full frame at some point - or at least give me the option of doing so if I so wished. Except the macro lens - which now lives on the 350D.

Title: Re: 5DII vs 7D
Post by: greypoint on October 30, 2009, 08:07:29 AM
Is nikon any good??
Well, after using Canon, Pentax, Olympus, Fuji and Nikon.....I'd say yes!! I'd also say there's so little between them at the bottom mid range that it's mainly down to personal choice and what you mainly photograph. 40D was nice D90 nicer....D300 just sooo lovely to handle..... :D :D
Title: Re: 5DII vs 7D
Post by: oRGie on November 01, 2009, 02:19:10 AM
I need some patience :)

7D price is moving daily, just spotted it for £1299 at HDEW cameras, anyone know this store or have used their online store ?
http://stores.hdewcameras.com/StoreFront.bok

 :beer:
Title: Re: 5DII vs 7D
Post by: picsfor on November 01, 2009, 07:55:55 AM
Never heard of them - but looking at their statement that they've been going since 1993 and then looking at their special offer for a 1Ds MkIII for £2375 i'd give them a wide birth.
1Ds MK III giving a mixture of specs between the 1D and 1Ds models, showing a picture of a 1D and a price a little over what you would pay for a 5D MkII.

In my book - something doesn't add up which means i'd still be more than likely to part cash with Park Cameras or similar.

 
Title: Re: 5DII vs 7D
Post by: greypoint on November 01, 2009, 08:10:36 AM
Have to say I've never heard of them either and I've done a fair bit of shopping around over the years. To be fair most of their prices are around what others are charging but if that's the case then it's as well to use a store with a known reputation.
Title: Re: 5DII vs 7D
Post by: oRGie on November 01, 2009, 12:29:36 PM
hmm, unfortunately Park dont do european deliveries, same with Wex, Bristol and jessops prices arent competative atm  :D   but I see what you mean about the 1dmk3, someone has made a mistake for sure. I must admit the site looks ok to me apart from that, I will give them a call and get a feel for the company depending on who I speak to, see if that gives me confidence in them. Their 7D price of £1299 doesnt seem so cheap that it worries me, I won't be suprised if thats the price it settles too most places over the next few weeks. I found them when searching for 24-105 prices, they have one for £725...

I would love to buy locally, but cheapest I can get a 7D for over the counter here is 1699 euros which is around £1550, so after shipping is added I would save around £200! not to be sniffed at. Having said that, if they are dodgy !!??!!   I would of course be buying with a CC, so I would have some protection from fraud if they are bogus....   

I'm hoping someone will know them :)      Be patient oRGie  :beer:
Title: Re: 5DII vs 7D
Post by: greypoint on November 01, 2009, 01:00:08 PM
this would appear to be the feedback for their ebay shop
http://feedback.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewFeedback2&userid=homedis&ftab=AllFeedback
nothing listed at the moment. A Google search gave a thread on talkphotography where someone talked of a 4 week wait and HK sourced goods but with extra warranty.
Title: Re: 5DII vs 7D
Post by: oRGie on November 01, 2009, 01:49:18 PM
The feedback looks ok, but thats not enough to bolster my confidence, thanks for searching that out  :beer:  Sent Park Cams an email, see if they can supply  :D
Title: Re: 5DII vs 7D
Post by: greypoint on November 01, 2009, 03:11:12 PM
Cameraworld supply but their price might not be low enough - good company to deal with i've found
Title: Re: 5DII vs 7D
Post by: hssutton on November 02, 2009, 01:40:42 PM
I will have my hands on a 7D come Tuesday, at a cost of £1300 from http://www.rgb-photo.co.uk/cameras-lenses-c1/digital-slrs-c2/canon-eos-7d-digital-slr-camera-body-p6.

They had 20 delivered today, but most of these where pre-ordered. Reviews of the company are good and they have a retail outlet in Middlesbro.

Harry


 
Title: Re: 5DII vs 7D
Post by: picsfor on November 02, 2009, 02:02:48 PM
nice price on the 1D Mk IV also...
Title: Re: 5DII vs 7D
Post by: oRGie on November 03, 2009, 12:01:11 AM
I will have my hands on a 7D come Tuesday, at a cost of £1300 from http://www.rgb-photo.co.uk/cameras-lenses-c1/digital-slrs-c2/canon-eos-7d-digital-slr-camera-body-p6.

They had 20 delivered today, but most of these where pre-ordered. Reviews of the company are good and they have a retail outlet in Middlesbro.

Harry


 

Thanks for posting that, sent them an email to see if they ship to mainland europe.

Park cameras will ship to me, but I have to do a bank transfer, they wont take CC to ship abroad. Spoke to them today, they have a spare battery and 8gb card offer with the camera so the price works out pretty close, but if RGB take CC and ship they will get the order. 

I see pics I am missing all over the place, last week we had the world rip curl surf championships at a beach up the road from here and me with no camera lol  talk about money burning a hole in your pocket, its like I have a piece of magma in mine  :'(
Title: Re: 5DII vs 7D
Post by: anglefire on November 03, 2009, 07:40:25 AM
Don't know if you do motorsports - but if these shots Here (http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=776071) are anything to go by, the AF seems pretty good!  :tup:
Title: Re: 5DII vs 7D
Post by: oRGie on November 03, 2009, 11:12:57 AM
Thanks for the link Mark.. any idea what lens the guy was using ? 

Well RGB dont do international shipping, so I'm off to the bank this morning to do a transfer to Park, have my order number in hand  :D
Title: Re: 5DII vs 7D
Post by: anglefire on November 03, 2009, 01:07:57 PM
Not sure - the exif doesn't say what lens - but one shot was 327mm - most of the others 500mm

And the only lenses in his sig that match up are the Canon 500mm f4.5L and sigma 120-300 (Probably f2.8).

If so, then decent glass!!
Title: Re: 5DII vs 7D
Post by: oRGie on November 03, 2009, 03:10:54 PM
and on that subject :)  In the end I came to the following decision, from park I have a 7D + 15-85 kit coming along with a free battery and sandisk ext3 8gb card.  :D

The lens was the hardest part in the end to decide about. I saw some good examples from the 15-85 and felt confident that for the time being that would be a good lens for me for most uses on the 7D. I sold my other ef-s lenses except the ef-s18-200is. Plan now is to keep the 15-85, sell the 18-200 and get a 70-200 f2.8 (IS if I can afford it, but definately the 2.8 as I see so many posts from people selling the F4 version to upgrade to the 2.8!), then when funds allow I will get a 17-40 or 16-35 if I can justify, then a 24-105 or 24-70 and a FF body at some point, perhaps a second hand 5D or mk2 depending on what they go for at the time :) and hang on to the 7D.

overall I think the crop 7D suits what I like to shoot most of the time, but having a FF body for landscape and portrait stuff would be nice, hence why a 5D mk1 would do that job nicely.

I thought about the 1D path second hand perhaps, but really I dont fancy not having the option to make it smaller, ie remove the battery grip...

Now I have to wait, for the transfer to clear, then maybe 5 days for the courier ho hum.....  its at times like this I miss living in the UK, oh the joy of fondling your new toy at the counter, paying the man the money and walking out bags in hand and grin ready to splitt your face  :beer:
Title: Re: 5DII vs 7D
Post by: minky_monkey on November 03, 2009, 03:48:43 PM
Congratulations on your purchase! 8)
Title: Re: 5DII vs 7D
Post by: Forseti on November 03, 2009, 04:23:33 PM
In the end I came to the following decision..... I have a 7D + 15-85 kit coming along with a free battery and sandisk ext3 8gb card.

 ....... and get a 70-200 f2.8 (IS if I can afford it, but definitely the 2.8 as I see so many posts from people selling the F4 version to upgrade to the 2.8!)........then then when funds allow I will get a 17-40 or 16-35 if I can justify, then a 24-105 or 24-70 .......

Congrats on your purchase,  :tup: I wish you a long and successful life together.  :-* Interesting your comments regarding the f/2.8 and f/4 as I've read a lot of comments more or less stating the opposite, plus of course the f/4 is smaller and lighter. The 17-40 is a very nice lens and can thoroughly recommend it.

Edit: I forgot to add that if you use Lightroom (and I suppose by implication Photoshop as they share the same Camera Raw pipeline) whilst I gather you will be able to open your images they are not as yet 'officially' supported. I take this to mean that your images may not appear quite as you would like them to but not having a 7D (yet) to try it out who knows. Hints are that there will be a Lightroom v2.6 prior to v3 although as is usual with Adobe nobody is officially admitting to it.  :'(



Title: Re: 5DII vs 7D
Post by: picsfor on November 03, 2009, 04:29:13 PM
1D something second hand?
Why?

The 7D will out perform them in most situations unless you are a pro and need the weather proofing.
Park will do me a nice 1D MkIII for under £2k - or a 5D MkII new for under £1800 and a 7D for even less.
Watching Martin (Minkey Monkey) play with his 7D on Saturday at the meet was an interesting experience.
Does his Smirnoff bottle look any worse than was produced on my 5D MkII? Actually with the mono conversion i think it looks better - but that may be a personal choice.
The 5D MkIII and the 7D actually compliment each other if you look at them. One is fine tuned for action, the other fine tuned for Portrait, Landscape, Studio.
Title: Re: 5DII vs 7D
Post by: oRGie on November 03, 2009, 06:13:55 PM
Cheers guys, I hope I wear out the shutter on this camera  :beer:

I'll keep reading the posts about F4 vs F2.8 70-200's, are you saying the IQ is thought to be better on the f4 or its just an easier lens to use ?

Thanks for the heads up on adobe stuff, I realsied I would be waiting for an update and need to move to cs4 etc, no problem with that, it will be nice to have to use dpp for a while, discover whats new etc..  I was tending not to shoot raw for a while now, found I didnt really need to, only took raw if I thought I would do a lot of processing of a shot and a couple of times I really wanted a keeper, so just in case. Will be nice having the "add a raw" button though.

I should have said second hand 1Ds :)   I agree, the 7D and 5D really do compliment each other, I think thats what made choosing so tough. For my purposes it makes sense to have all the gizzmo's in the 7D and have a more simple 5Dmk1 for the sort of shots I wont need fast af and have plenty of time to set up the shots, lighting, tripods etc..  oh and of course a progressive outlay of funds in the 7D now route worked for me, to go 5DmkII now would have been expensive in 1 hit lol
Title: Re: 5DII vs 7D
Post by: picsfor on November 03, 2009, 07:48:54 PM
IQ is considered to be 'marginally' better on the f4 - though not really a lot in it.
What is a big difference though is carting it about and using it. f4 is sooo much easier and lighter to handle.

That's why i went for the f4 over the f2.8 - that and the extra £500!
Title: Re: 5DII vs 7D
Post by: anglefire on November 03, 2009, 08:49:42 PM
In some respect, having a high FPS is a bit of a cop out - although is nice to have if you want to catch more than 1 frame of action.

I first decided I wanted a faster camera after a day at Haye Park in January 08.

Not that I couldn't get the shot with my 5D, but that I only had 1 Chance.

(http://www.mark.colston-online.co.uk/Motorsport/LCMC%20Haye%20Park/slides/Car%206%20IMG_4243%205D.jpg)

Whereas this year at Mallory, I got a sequene of about 12 shots of a car going off - this being one of them:

(http://www.mark.colston-online.co.uk/Motorsport/Mallory%20Park/Rally%20Cross%202009/slides/IMG_6816%20EOS-1D%20Mark%20III%20copy.jpg)

So, yes, the 7D will be a useful camera at times!!  :tup:
Title: Re: 5DII vs 7D
Post by: Forseti on November 03, 2009, 09:31:02 PM
IQ is considered to be 'marginally' better on the f4 - though not really a lot in it.
What is a big difference though is carting it about and using it. f4 is sooo much easier and lighter to handle.

That's why i went for the f4 over the f2.8 - that and the extra £500!

That just about sums up what my searches revealed and having owned the f/4 for a while now, can't fault it at all. In fairness though, I haven't handled or indeed used the f/2.8 and whilst the extra financial outlay wasn't really a consideration, lightness and ease of handling certainly was. For the extremely odd occasions that a fast lens would be useful it was the latter two points that swung it for me.
Title: Re: 5DII vs 7D
Post by: hssutton on November 03, 2009, 09:32:50 PM
Well my 7D arrived safe and sound. Just fired of a couple of flash photos.
The major problem with this camera is that I'll have to read the manual as it's just a little more complicated than the 5D. (Actually it's a lot more complicated)

Will pop up to Donna Nook tomorrow and try it out on the seals, weather permitting.

Harry

Edited. I forgot to mention Lightroom is little more than useless, as is CS4 for processing the 7D raw files. I converted these in DPP then tranferred them to CS4. I hope Adobe get their collective fingers out and supply an upgate to include the 7D.  I hate using the Canon software.

(http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j153/hssutton/flowers.jpg)

And Julie who's suffering from a very bad cold.

(http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j153/hssutton/Julie.jpg)


Title: Re: 5DII vs 7D
Post by: oRGie on November 03, 2009, 10:53:05 PM
Nice one Harry, glad yours arrived safe and sound. RGB wouldnt ship international and I didnt want to involve a friend in the UK to forward etc, so hopefully Park will be prompt for me too :)

Did you get permission to post the pick of your missus, I bet she was thinking "I feel like this and he wants to take my photo!"

Out of interest, what lens did you use for the shots and what was the basic exposure settings ? both shots with flash ? second one looks lit by electric light bulb, higher iso ?

I made a head start reading the manual, might as well while I wait for the next week or so   :legit:
Title: Re: 5DII vs 7D
Post by: hssutton on November 03, 2009, 11:17:51 PM
No I didn't get permission so I may be in a little trouble :)

The flowers where taken using the Canon 100mm f/2.8 Macro, with Julie being with the Sigma 24-70 f/2.8 and yes there was quite a bit of tungsten lighting involved.

Will be using the 100-400 IS lens for the seals tomorrow.

Enjoy reading the manual, but you really need the camera with you when reading it.

Harry
Title: Re: 5DII vs 7D
Post by: oRGie on November 05, 2009, 07:07:51 PM
Dum de dum, waiting is never easy  :doh:  read the manual a few times, yes, would be nice to have the camera to refer too, still, its given me time to do some decorating, its great having a huge garage till its time to paint it, done the bathroom ceiling, took apart the shower cubicle and re-sealed it all, done the upstairs bathroom ceiling, window frames spruced up, few cracks in the paving around the house cemented. weeded the borders on the drive, mowed the lawns  :legit:

and as luck would have it, the drummers wife had their baby 10 days early and guess who doesnt have a camera, mind you if they knew it did video too it may have saved me from an experience I dont think i would have enjoyed lol  annnnd there's no personal number plates here, but I saw a plate 17-40-EF that I know I would have snapped  8)

It hasnt even shipped yet, 24-48 hours for the transfer to clear, so if i am lucky it might ship tommorow  :beer:
Title: Re: 5DII vs 7D
Post by: oRGie on November 12, 2009, 04:48:14 PM
Battery is on charge  :D  :D  :D  :D

Park were indeed nice to deal with, little bit "computer sais No" but thats modern life lol..  They deserve credit too, as the price dropped again a bit this week, I called to tell them I'd noticed, so they offered me store credit, which I've used to get the hood for the lens, happy days :)

 :beer: Thanks for all the help deciding, invaluable really   :beer:

Nearly charged  :legit:
Title: Re: 5DII vs 7D
Post by: picsfor on November 12, 2009, 06:44:31 PM
I see the 7D gets a full review in this months 'Pradar' magazine (sorry DCM for those old enough to remember  ;D )

Whilst they rate it highly and score it well - they seem to achieve a mixed conclusion - too much for an amateur, not enough for a pro! So just right for a part timer or keen amateur then!

Next month they're gong to put it up against the D300s to see which is better!
Title: Re: 5DII vs 7D
Post by: anglefire on November 12, 2009, 08:24:06 PM
I see the 7D gets a full review in this months 'Pradar' magazine (sorry DCM for those old enough to remember  ;D )

Whilst they rate it highly and score it well - they seem to achieve a mixed conclusion - too much for an amateur, not enough for a pro! So just right for a part timer or keen amateur then!

Next month they're gong to put it up against the D300s to see which is better!

Oh deep Joy!  :legit:
Title: Re: 5DII vs 7D
Post by: minky_monkey on November 14, 2009, 12:01:08 PM
I see the 7D gets a full review in this months 'Pradar' magazine (sorry DCM for those old enough to remember  ;D )

Whilst they rate it highly and score it well - they seem to achieve a mixed conclusion - too much for an amateur, not enough for a pro! So just right for a part timer or keen amateur then!

Next month they're gong to put it up against the D300s to see which is better!

I`ve just read that review, bit of a weird one.  Yes it is a reasonably complicated camera, but at the price level it`s set at, it`s not exactly aimed at inexperienced shooters....

Title: Re: 5DII vs 7D
Post by: picsfor on November 14, 2009, 01:52:48 PM
i know what you mean Martin - i was a tad confused by the conclusion- given that they introduced the camera as being the product of much consultation with action pros and keen amateurs alike!

And then they're going to put it up against a D300s for comparison?

Bit like putting an Airbus A380 up against against Boing Dreamliner!
Title: Re: 5DII vs 7D
Post by: minky_monkey on November 14, 2009, 06:43:33 PM
Mind you, I thought most of their reviews were muddled in this months mag.

Can someone please explain what the point of the luxury lens test was?  Loads of different types of lens, for different fit cameras and then to pick a best one out of the lot?

They`re losing the plot....
Title: Re: 5DII vs 7D
Post by: picsfor on November 14, 2009, 07:43:05 PM
Like site, like mag - wonder what will die first - the site or the mag?

Though in fairness i was tempted to go for that 'Oly' lens they raved on about if i can get it in a Canon fit  ;D
Title: Re: 5DII vs 7D
Post by: hssutton on November 16, 2009, 11:18:53 PM
Had very little time to use my new toy (illness in the family) , but on the way to Lincoln hostpital on Sunday I spotted an hang glider paitently waiting for lift off. Was far to cold for me to hang around :)

Harry

(http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j153/hssutton/Waitingforthewind.jpg)

Title: Re: 5DII vs 7D
Post by: anglefire on November 19, 2009, 10:16:28 PM
There is a RC version of ACR 5.6 and LR 2.6 http://labs.adobe.com/wiki/index.php/Camera_Raw_5.6

Supports the 7D amongst others.


Might be of use?
Title: Re: 5DII vs 7D
Post by: Oldboy on November 19, 2009, 10:42:39 PM
Like site, like mag - wonder what will die first - the site or the mag?


The site as it's still full of bugs.  :(
Title: Re: 5DII vs 7D
Post by: jimthetrain on January 26, 2010, 02:49:22 PM
I'm finding this offer too tempting. Must resist.

Canon 7D + ef-s 18-135 is + free speedlite 580 for £1499 at wilkinsons.

Must keep card in wallet. AAARRGHHH



EDIT. Now gone up £50 (6hrs later)
Title: Re: 5DII vs 7D
Post by: picsfor on January 26, 2010, 04:39:20 PM
not really a bargain for you when you think about it Jim.

You could buy a body and flash for pretty much the same price already, Why would you want the lens?
You've already got better!
Title: Re: 5DII vs 7D
Post by: jimthetrain on January 26, 2010, 04:56:42 PM
I agree,the lens probably isn't up to much but even the body + flash is about a £100 saving. :tup: You can always ebay the lens if no good for a small sum which only brings the price down further. I all ready have a speedlite 430 but the 580 would be a handy addition.  ::)
Title: Re: 5DII vs 7D
Post by: jimthetrain on February 01, 2010, 10:12:15 PM
You only enjoy life once so I blew £1500 on the above combination. ::) The lens is pretty good for a cheapy. Just tried the wireless flash function with the two speedlites as slaves and the on board flash with the kit lens and you can zoom all the way in on the back screen  and it's still sharp as anything. Pretty impressed really (easily pleased you might say.) They discontinued the offer the day after. :D The only thing I've noticed on the con side is a red tinge in some shots where there is no red at all (shot with the 70-200 2.8 L is). Was mentioned in the review in Outdoor Photography mag as well. Missing the grip though with a heavy lens on. Just got to fix the 40D now and sell the 1D or sell them both or keep them both. I'm not one for getting rid of things. ;D
Title: Re: 5DII vs 7D
Post by: skellum on February 02, 2010, 12:33:54 AM
I did say I would buy your 1D...... if you bought a 5 D...... See you in the little stars ( Pub ) to discuss...... :beer:.... :legit:
Title: Re: 5DII vs 7D
Post by: picsfor on February 02, 2010, 09:11:35 AM
Jim,

you will find the 7D great for in cab shots and if you have an offer on the 1D then take it - that will help balance the books out a bit.
I'm looking at my 2nd body (hate having a single body) and still don't know whether to get a 7D (£500 cheaper) or another 5D MkII (same as i have and am so familiar with it's "traits's").

The red tinge you talk of should be sorted out with an in camera setting change or a software upgrade. Do not think Canon would let that go for too long given how much they have put into this camera.
Title: Re: 5DII vs 7D
Post by: jimthetrain on February 02, 2010, 11:04:49 AM
I did say I would buy your 1D...... if you bought a 5 D...... See you in the little stars ( Pub ) to discuss...... :beer:.... :legit:

I hadn't forgot Dave. Only picked  the new one up last thursday so was in no rush to get rid as the 40D is crocked. As you say, we'll talk about it later.

Andrew, I nearly went for a 5D but wanted the extra reach of the 7D for my cricket photos and apart from the size, it's basically a newer version of the 1Dmkll. Plus the fact that at least all my lenses fit it and would only have a couple that fit a 5D. The pictures at 6400 iso in a darkened room are quite usable too.  I love the speed of the auto focus as well. I just need some time off work now to go out and play with it properly.

Hope you are on the mend. Don't be using all your sick days up before the spring. ;D
Title: Re: 5DII vs 7D
Post by: picsfor on February 02, 2010, 11:25:27 AM
Jim,

i think the 7D is for wildlife/ action photographers. As you say, an updated 1D MkII (dare i say 1D MkIII) for a lot loss bucks.
Not seen a bad review yet - and the pictures seem quite nice as well. 18mp crop sensor producing file sizes almost the same as a 5D MkII or 1DsMkIII - can't fault it.

I'm not so much of an action/ wildlife photographer so the 5D MkII really does suit my needs. The only action shots i really take are trains and i can work them out with ease - even manual focus if needed!
(how sad is that?)
Focusing speed and lock is my only gripe wit the 5D MkII - it is slow and can be fickle! And yet at high iso it flies (6400, 12,800 or 25600)
Title: Re: 5DII vs 7D
Post by: oRGie on February 02, 2010, 11:57:15 AM
Gratz Jim :)   I'm sure you will love it..  Dont be scared to use 12800iso either, just remember it likes a good exposure to avoid noise, if you overexpose just a tad it gives amazing results..  Have fun with the Af options and no more need to focus and recompose, all the af points do a fantastic job. (set the multiway joystick to choose af points, so quick and easy that way)   :beer:
Title: Re: 5DII vs 7D
Post by: picsfor on February 02, 2010, 12:35:12 PM
oh gosh yes - the multi-way joystick for focus point selection - almost as great a feature as the ability to change ISO from one shot to the next!
i think that is almost the first thing i do with any new body!
Title: Re: 5DII vs 7D
Post by: jimthetrain on February 02, 2010, 05:04:34 PM
here(hopefully) is that red tinge I was talking about. Doesn't that light on his side look like a ****  :2funny:

Title: Re: 5DII vs 7D
Post by: picsfor on February 02, 2010, 05:19:32 PM
that's some what worrying.

Looks like the red is over saturated. Definitely another 5D MkII until that one is sorted out.
It's as bad as the black dots that were found on night shots with the 5D MkII until a patch was released.

What news or fixes have been published thus far?
Title: Re: 5DII vs 7D
Post by: jimthetrain on February 02, 2010, 05:36:28 PM
I haven't looked around yet but at the bottom of the outdoor photographer review they mentioned that they took a shot with a red traffic light in it and it turned out a plum colour. They also mentioned that if enough seem to have this problem then canon would probably have to fix it with a firmware update. Looking for the mag but just realised it's in my locker at work. :doh:
Title: Re: 5DII vs 7D
Post by: picsfor on February 02, 2010, 05:48:36 PM
And i suppose you quickly glanced the feature between Norton Bridge and Stafford  :2funny:

That's an industry joke before any one takes it seriously. You can't read And drive a train - how would you hold you food, drink or iPod Touch?  :tup:
Title: Re: 5DII vs 7D
Post by: Oldboy on February 02, 2010, 06:17:24 PM
And i suppose you quickly glanced the feature between Norton Bridge and Stafford  :2funny:

And I though you just had forty winks!  :2funny: :legit:
Title: Re: 5DII vs 7D
Post by: oRGie on February 02, 2010, 06:21:40 PM
yes the light lol :)   Thats with the 70-200 ?  lovely :)

That red is strange, I havent noticed anything like that on mine so far. What software are you using ? dpp or cs4/acr etc.. if cs4/acr have you got the right update, there is one that works with 7d raws but messes with the colours..

If the tinge wasnt on the ends of the hairs I would have said could it be the flash making the slight redness in the ear stand out, but the hairs look like they have been dyied, unless its that the light was strong enough to affect the ends of the hairs.. any more examples of this problem ?
Title: Re: 5DII vs 7D
Post by: jimthetrain on February 02, 2010, 07:27:54 PM
I noticed the red when I previewed the shot on the cameras screen. Just looked for the exif. 1/60 sec f3.5 iso 800 av mode. Took in burst mode of 3, all the same. All the other shots inside don't have any hint of red whatsoever. ::) Might be just one of those things. I'll try some more now.



Edit.  Can't get it to do it now so I'll put it down to newness for now. ;D
Title: Re: 5DII vs 7D
Post by: picsfor on February 02, 2010, 07:48:45 PM
or maybe pooch is as clever as his name sake in Fraser  :tup: