Camera Craniums

Photography Equipment => DSLR Cameras => Topic started by: greypoint on July 31, 2009, 08:04:52 AM

Title: Are you rushing out...
Post by: greypoint on July 31, 2009, 08:04:52 AM
....to buy one of the new Nikons?! I suppose the new D300s will fairly rapidly drop in price to nearer that of the current D300 but, even so, it will be expensive compared to other models. Have'nt really looked at the specs of the D3000 - I assume it will also have to drop in price to make it the entry level option to make it competetive. I suppose the D300s sort of proves that they really have'nt managed to come up with really worthwhile improvements on the D300 [if you discount video] in the past two years. Reminds me of when video recorders came out - all we wanted was something that could record programmes for up to a few days in advance - once we'd all got one they had to keep coming up with improvements we did'nt need or want to try and make up spend more money. I wonder how camera makers ever survived in film days when we'd buy a camera that would last us years and years - many people just never bought another.
I'm not saying it's never worthwhile buying the later model [given my track record!] I've been using the D80 and D90 side by side and the D90 makes the D80 seem very very ordinary 8)
Title: Re: Are you rushing out...
Post by: alan1572 on July 31, 2009, 11:20:05 AM
i got the d300 last year and know for a fact that unless it gets lost :o/stolen i will have it foe many many year's to come, i don't know enough to warrent having this camera so i won't be buying another. I love to use my d300 and i'm learning every time i use it...it's just a very slow process.
Title: Re: Are you rushing out...
Post by: greypoint on July 31, 2009, 12:43:25 PM
I think the D300 is one of those cameras that the manufacturer just got right. I've had mine for a couple of weeks and I can't really think of anything much that needs improving - for the type of camera it is. I'm talking short term tweaks here rather than great leaps forward in the long term. Canon did the same with the 40D to a large extent. Both cameras have had long shelf lives - the D300 has even gone up in price with the currency problems and is still selling. For me the D90 also looks like being a classic [OK the metering can be a touch dodgy but you can work round that!]. I can really only see non D300 users or those who must have video buying the D300s.
Title: Re: Are you rushing out...
Post by: irv_b on July 31, 2009, 05:16:05 PM
Damn from what you are saying you dont think that the D300 will drop in price d300s comes out then? I was banking on that and saving little by little till next year hoping that the price will plummet :'(
Title: Re: Are you rushing out...
Post by: Bigbill on July 31, 2009, 05:33:38 PM
Hello from Breezey Sheffy

The D300 is one AWESOME BEAST !!

shine on
Title: Re: Are you rushing out...
Post by: anglefire on July 31, 2009, 09:07:59 PM
I'm in no rush to buy ANY Nikon!  :2funny:

Well, only as a door stop anyway! And it would have to be flippin' cheap!
Title: Re: Are you rushing out...
Post by: alan1572 on July 31, 2009, 09:18:55 PM
I'm in no rush to buy ANY Nikon!  :2funny:

Well, only as a door stop anyway! And it would have to be flippin' cheap!
cheap door?
Title: Re: Are you rushing out...
Post by: greypoint on August 01, 2009, 12:48:34 PM
Yes, a door stop needs to be solid and reliable  :D
Title: Re: Are you rushing out...
Post by: Eileen on August 01, 2009, 06:30:36 PM
Funny you should say that about film cameras Sue. I bought an Olympus OM1n as a student and never bought another for 20 years. I still have it and it works fine. But I replaced my first DSLR relatively quickly as I outgrew it. The D300 was a vast improvement on my D70, but I don't think the new D300s is much ahead of the D90 in terms of the quality of its output, if at all.

Adding a few bells and tweaks allows Nikon to keep their products in the magazines and forums for relatively little cost. It also gives those who must have the latest thing a new Nikon to consider. And as the D300 will remain on the stocks for a while yet, people who don't want to pay for the extras still have that option. I suspect Nikon can't not bring out new cameras while their competitors are, for fear of losing their market - got to keep up. Can't have all those reviewers only looking at Canon, Sony, Pantax and Oly models. It also allows them to eke a bit more value out of the sensor they spent a fortune to develop while they spend another fortune developing the Next Big thing.

I won't be rushing out to the shops. Though a nice new full frame wideangle lens that took filters would be worth thinking about...
Title: Re: Are you rushing out...
Post by: greypoint on August 01, 2009, 07:03:16 PM
If the D300s forces down the price of the D300 then I think the D300 will continue to outsell it.

My first proper camera was a little Nikon FG but I did upgrade when autofocus came in 8)
Title: Re: Are you rushing out...
Post by: anglefire on August 01, 2009, 08:57:33 PM
This type of warming over has been going on for years.

The 1DNkIIN was a warmed over and tweaked 1DMkII
The MkIII was a all new camera - and they cocked the AF up on that initially.

The 40D was a warmed over 30D, which in itself wasn't a huge change to the 20D, and the 50D is not a huge departure from the 40D.

The 5D was a big change - the first of its kind really. The 5DII is an update to it (Ok a fairly big one)

The consumer end are all small changes. 350D and 450D are very similar. Just some bells and whistles.

I'm sure a lot has to do with the Japanese market, which seems to demand updates every year or so.

The problem now, is what can they do? Low noise is a given these days. Frame rates are strangled on some camera's, either mechanically or firmware (Or power! D700 springs to mind!). Some cameras are getting smaller - which is fine for some, but I find anything smaller than a 5D too small - my gripped 350D is just about ok. But my old A1 film camera is just a toy in comparison. Far too small!

So Nikon brought out the video in the D90 - which was almost immediately trounced by the 5DMkII. In fact the 5DMKII is a hell of a camera - there isn't that many that can match it all round. Equal or better in some areas, but not the package.

It will be interesting to see what comes out when the 1DMkIV is announced. Some say later this year, More likely next year - but who knows. But this probably worth a separate thread!!
Title: Re: Are you rushing out...
Post by: greypoint on August 01, 2009, 09:14:22 PM
I think it's always been a case with Canon of being worthwhile changing for every other upgrade. 10D to 30D - 20D to 40D etc. Having used a 10D and a 30D I'd definitely say that was a worthwhile upgrade - the 10D drove me mad! Having said that, I much preferred the 40D - 10 months is a long time to keep a camera! Nikon upgrades in the past have been pretty gradual but the D90 is a helluva lot better than the D80 - others may disagree of course :P
Title: Re: Are you rushing out...
Post by: anglefire on August 01, 2009, 09:23:10 PM
I must admit, I don't know much about the other makes - I've used a D700 to take one shot and if I'm honest I liked it a lot.

I bought my first DSLR almost on a wim - I went into Jessops one day to look and compared the 350D with the D70 and came away with the 350D - I suspect my judgement was coloured by having a Canon G2 P&S and the menus were similar on the 350D - and the D70 felt too big!

If I'd had gone to Nikon I'd have been happy I suspect.

Now I can't afford to change systems. Too much invested in gear! Total insurance value is around £8K - and I have cover to hire another £3500 of stuff!!

In my defence I've come down from a Audi A6 estate (was £25K new) to a 12year old Land Rover Defender! So have cut my car ownership costs down by about 2/3rds.! Mu-Lud
Title: Re: Are you rushing out...
Post by: greypoint on August 01, 2009, 09:32:01 PM
I try to stick to second hand lenses - you can still lose a bit but I look on that as a hire charge.Rarely have more than 2 0r 3 lenses and don't use flashes etc. I'll probably stick with Nikon now the only real alternative for me would be Olympus and the lenses I'd want would be too expensive. I switched to the D300 from the D90 largely on account of the longer life it seems to offer. The shutter count on my D90 was 38,000 and rising rapidly. It's now with my friend who used to have a D50 - she finds it unbelievably good. It's really enthised her about photography I think.
Title: Re: Are you rushing out...
Post by: anglefire on August 01, 2009, 09:39:24 PM
My 400mm f5.6 and 85f1.8 were 2nd hand - both mint.

The only lens I'd really like is the 300mm f2.8 and 135f2. The 135 is a realistic possibilty, but the 300 is hard to justify - especially as it is rumoured to be replaced soon. Mind you it might mean that there will be some around cheaper!!

Mind you another reason I didn't get Nikon was that they didn't do (and stated they weren't going to) a full frame camera. It wasn't a thought when I bought the 350D - but it was the reason that I only got EF lenses (Except the stunning EFs 60mm macro) very early on.
Title: Re: Are you rushing out...
Post by: greypoint on August 01, 2009, 09:42:28 PM
Having ebayed everything - one lens to go - I'm down to 2 lenses 17-70 and 70-300. Something longer would be nice but then there's the weight thing - looking around for a bargain!
Title: Re: Are you rushing out...
Post by: Oldboy on August 01, 2009, 09:57:26 PM
Having ebayed everything - one lens to go - I'm down to 2 lenses 17-70 and 70-300. Something longer would be nice but then there's the weight thing - looking around for a bargain!
As you have a D300 now, check out the Nikon AIS lenses, as there are some great deals about.  :D
Title: Re: Are you rushing out...
Post by: Chris P on August 03, 2009, 09:46:00 AM
The D300s doesn't really appeal to me but the D3000 is a much more interesting concept.

£450 for a camera with the 11 point 3D tracking AF from the D90?  Thats going to be it's biggest selling point surely?  Wait for the price to drop below £400 and I reckon Nikon will have a winner on their hands (so long as the CCD sensor is half decent at ISO 800!)
Title: Re: Are you rushing out...
Post by: greypoint on August 04, 2009, 06:50:55 AM
I think Nikon dominated the lower end of the market with the D40 so not only should it appeal to new users but could well be seen as an upgrade for D40 owners for not too much money.
Title: Re: Are you rushing out...
Post by: Chris P on August 05, 2009, 08:41:22 AM
Absolutely.  Nikon could have a big seller on their hands so long as they keep it priced right.  When they brought out the D5000 I remember thinking "crikey - that's pricey!".

It's not only Nikon, of course.  When Canon released the 500D it cost more, body only, than a 50D.  To me, that's madness.  I even started a thread about it DCM.  If Nikon actually price the D3000 from the start so that it's attractive to D40 users and newcomers then they'll have the best spec/price combination in that market.
Title: Re: Are you rushing out...
Post by: irv_b on August 05, 2009, 09:18:17 AM
I see that Amazon have priced the D3000 at £499   but I wonder if it is that much of a step up in usuability compared with the D40 if it is still aim at the entry market? I would imagine the technology is better but from what I read  people tend to change cameras because THEY have advanced in technique and ability rather than just because a new camera has come out! the D300s is £1500 btw

(copy and paste)
http://www.amazon.co.uk/s/?ie=UTF8&keywords=d3000&tag=yahhyd-21&index=aps&hvadid=15180318031&ref=pd_sl_7gu219hl8r_b
Title: Re: Are you rushing out...
Post by: Chris P on August 05, 2009, 09:35:41 AM
It offers quite a lot more tech than the D40.  It's still based around a CCD sensor but the AF system is very advanced for a camera in it's price range.  How useable that AF system will be, especially for entry level users, I'm not sure.  It's a great system on the D90 and works extremely well.

It's difficult to say if the D3000 will be more "useable" than the D40.  I'd argue that perhaps it'll be harder to get to grips with thanks to the extra toys.  Nikon's AF system still has me flummoxed sometimes so how a new user will find it we'll have to wait and see
Title: Re: Are you rushing out...
Post by: greypoint on August 05, 2009, 01:49:57 PM
I think it was meant to be a D60 replacement rather than D40. Before the world money problems forced up camera prices, entry level DSLRs were hitting rock bottom so I suppose in better times the street price of the D3000 would have been under £300 body only.
Title: Re: Are you rushing out...
Post by: Chris P on August 05, 2009, 01:51:42 PM
I think it was meant to be a D60 replacement rather than D40. Before the world money problems forced up camera prices, entry level DSLRs were hitting rock bottom so I suppose in better times the street price of the D3000 would have been under £300 body only.

Exactly.  And it's better than the EOS 1000D and might even compete with the Olympus's and Sony's on value! :o
Title: Re: Are you rushing out...
Post by: wendoureecat on August 08, 2009, 05:28:18 AM
I must admit I am hoping the D300 will drop in price when the D300s comes out. Having said that although we live in a fairly large town if you are not a canon user or want a point and shoot I have to go either online or to Melbourne to do my shopping. And with the exchange rates I quite often wait for a trip to the UK to make my purchases. Although my inlaws have moved to France and there is a town near there that has no tax and camera prices can be bargained for so a trip to France's countryside might be in order next year.
Title: Re: Are you rushing out...
Post by: irv_b on August 08, 2009, 09:04:33 PM
Without wishing to pry to deeply into other  peoples finances. How do you guys go about raising the money to get a new camera or lens even -do you sell your pics or use your existing camera as p/x or have you got some ingenius scheme to raise the neccessary dosh-being a plumber, I am saving the money I get from weighing in the scrap metal off a job  :)
Title: Re: Are you rushing out...
Post by: Chris P on August 08, 2009, 09:15:06 PM
Without wishing to pry to deeply into other  peoples finances. How do you guys go about raising the money to get a new camera or lens even -do you sell your pics or use your existing camera as p/x or have you got some ingenius scheme to raise the neccessary dosh-being a plumber, I am saving the money I get from weighing in the scrap metal off a job  :)

Personally, I tutor A-level students in my spare time which pays well.  Sadly I'm still in quite a lot of debt from several years at University.  Ultimately I just save up money and try to make sure I've paid off some debt before I spend anything.  Running out of "cheap" things to buy now!!
Title: Re: Are you rushing out...
Post by: bones615 on August 08, 2009, 09:22:28 PM
Irv, My wife generously gives me a few quid a week pocket money from MY wages, I am a bugger to by for at xmas so I save my pennies for each piece of kit, just got the bigma this way. I have just picked up a bargain from ebay - old eos 300 film camera with 75-300 and a standard lens for £35, should be able to put it back on and turn a profit on just the 75-300, this can then go into the macro lens pot.

Simon