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General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Just Dave on May 02, 2011, 07:11:06 AM

Title: Bin Ladens Dead
Post by: Just Dave on May 02, 2011, 07:11:06 AM
Just got up to news Bin Laden has been killed in Pakistan, his body is in US custody, at last some justice has been done,  Will make the world a more insecure, the world will need to be even more vigilant to the threat of terrorism, and the lash back from his death, it will not bring an end to Al Quada
Title: Re: Bin Ladens Dead
Post by: Jonathan on May 02, 2011, 08:35:17 AM
Satisfying?  Yes.

The "right" thing to do?  Probably.

An increase to perceived world security?  Maybe.  For a while.

But justice?  Nah.

I don't have a problem with the US effectively eliminating a military target (or whatever euphemisms they like to use) but to brag about it like it's a triumphant day for democracy and justice seems a little too much.
Title: Re: Bin Ladens Dead
Post by: Mick on May 02, 2011, 08:46:30 AM

and the lash back from his death, it will not bring an end to Al Quada


That bit worries me more than anything TBH.  :legit:
Title: Re: Bin Ladens Dead
Post by: Just Dave on May 02, 2011, 08:54:13 AM
Yeah really I meant  in the eyes of the victims families, they will think some justice has been done
Title: Re: Bin Ladens Dead
Post by: anglefire on May 02, 2011, 09:26:31 AM
I don't have a problem with the US effectively eliminating a military target (or whatever euphemisms they like to use) but to brag about it like it's a triumphant day for democracy and justice seems a little too much.

I agree - don't see what democracy has to do with it TBH. Killing one man will do nothing for it - potentially make it worse if anyone else can step up to the mark.

What they haven't said (That I've seen - and haven't looked that hard!) is who else was taken out, and what cost in terms of US/Pakistani people.

If they have taken the upper level - it is possible AQ will fall apart - but I seriously doubt it.
Title: Re: Bin Ladens Dead
Post by: Beaux Reflets on May 02, 2011, 09:31:09 AM
In my opinion the 'reporting media' need to slow down a bit. The consequential effects of 'bragging n celebration' may just encourage more evil mind, to increase any potential in a backlash.
Title: Re: Bin Ladens Dead
Post by: picsfor on May 02, 2011, 09:40:22 AM
I'm not sorry it has happened, and in honesty - i'm not sure any other outcome was really plausible.
You couldn't let him have his day in court - too many secrets to be spilled. Past administrations were complicit in his rise...
Reports say he has been buried at sea - well you couldn't really assign him a fixed burial place because of the focus such a point would provide (just look at the aftermath of Raul Moat)

But is it a time to celebrate? No - death is never something to celebrate...
Title: Re: Bin Ladens Dead
Post by: Jonathan on May 02, 2011, 09:43:09 AM
Yeah really I meant  in the eyes of the victims families, they will think some justice has been done

Yeah I didn't mean you ;)  Obama actually said "justice has been done".  Which is kind of interesting given the US's rather shaky approach to war crimes.

I agree - don't see what democracy has to do with it TBH. Killing one man will do nothing for it - potentially make it worse if anyone else can step up to the mark.

There have been a whole bunch of atrocities laid at the door of Al-Qaeda in the past few years.  Can't remember that last time one was linked to OBL.

What they haven't said (That I've seen - and haven't looked that hard!) is who else was taken out, and what cost in terms of US/Pakistani people.

BBC are reporting 3 men (one son and 2 "couriers") dead plus one woman who was used as a human shield...............

One US helicopter destroyed due to "technical problems".  No US casualties.

There was an excellent documentary by the BBC shortly after 9/11 producing pretty compelling evidence that the CIA had basically invented Al-Quaeda.  Once they came up with the concept lots of terrorist organisations kind of bundled together and made it real.  But it has never seemed a single person organisation to me.  One person's death won't destroy it.  It's possible nothing can (and if you're a conspiracy theorist then the US military for one would never allow it to vanish....)
Title: Re: Bin Ladens Dead
Post by: picsfor on May 02, 2011, 09:49:29 AM
I'm sure this will get some extra defence budget money for those orchestrating all of this (cynically said)
Title: Re: Bin Ladens Dead
Post by: Hinfrance on May 02, 2011, 10:19:59 AM
There was an excellent documentary by the BBC shortly after 9/11 producing pretty compelling evidence that the CIA had basically invented Al-Quaeda.  Once they came up with the concept lots of terrorist organisations kind of bundled together and made it real.  But it has never seemed a single person organisation to me.  One person's death won't destroy it.  It's possible nothing can (and if you're a conspiracy theorist then the US military for one would never allow it to vanish....)

That was 'The Power of Nightmares' which rapidly disappeared from the beeb archives shortly after it was aired. There are copies of it about on the web if you look hard enough (and in my DivX collection).

So the body has already been 'buried at sea'. Quite convenient since he had probably been dead for nearly a decade.

Al Qaeda doesn't exist in any meaningful sense of the word, and never has. OBL was a figurehead that the west found essential for the prosecution of the war in Afghanistan in particular, and it didn't hurt the opposition to pretend that they had a hero who could evade the most powerful nation on earth no matter how hard they tried to find him.

I'm just puzzled by the timing? Why now?

Anyhoo, the boxed DVD set of Greatest Hits should be available in the shops very soon . .
Title: Re: Bin Ladens Dead
Post by: jinky on May 02, 2011, 11:26:16 AM
Strange Henry Cooper and Bin Laden dying on the same day - I mean,talking conspiracy theories, did you ever see the two in the same room together?  ;)
Title: Re: Bin Ladens Dead
Post by: picsfor on May 02, 2011, 02:02:01 PM
Strange Henry Cooper and Bin Laden dying on the same day - I mean,talking conspiracy theories, did you ever see the two in the same room together?  ;)

no but i heard Ted Lowe commentated on it!
Title: Re: Bin Ladens Dead
Post by: Beryl on May 03, 2011, 12:34:25 PM
Yep when some like that one dies or is killed the public only find out when it is politically convenient
Title: Re: Bin Ladens Dead
Post by: krennon on May 03, 2011, 01:13:00 PM
Satisfying?  Yes.

The "right" thing to do?  Probably.

An increase to perceived world security?  Maybe.  For a while.

But justice?  Nah.

I don't have a problem with the US effectively eliminating a military target (or whatever euphemisms they like to use) but to brag about it like it's a triumphant day for democracy and justice seems a little too much.

I kind of agree with Jonathans comments here. However if AQ aka The Taliban and whatever other name you want to call the terrorists/insurgents etc had succeeded in capturing Prince Harry when he was serving in Afghanistan, do you not think that they would not have hesitated in beheading him and posting it online as has happened with other so called "hostages" and bragged about it for years to come...I worked for an american owned co. back in 2001 and my company lost 350 members of staff including our vice president and his sister who was just visiting him in the twin towers....Whilst no death should ever be celebrated, I do feel a certain sense of satisfaction that OBL is now dead....
Although if you're a conspiracy theorist....Tell the world he has been buried at sea to avoid a shrine being set up, meanwhile an extraordinary rendition flight out of Pakistan to friendlier territory with an un-named and unidentified prisoner on board on route to the U.S.A. to be held forever more in solitary confinement whilst being questioned for intelligence relating to possible terrorist attacks...would not be out of the question...possibly????
Title: Re: Bin Ladens Dead
Post by: Jonathan on May 03, 2011, 02:06:39 PM
if AQ aka The Taliban and whatever other name you want to call the terrorists/insurgents etc had succeeded in capturing Prince Harry when he was serving in Afghanistan, do you not think that they would not have hesitated in beheading him and posting it online as has happened with other so called "hostages" and bragged about it for years to come...

I don't doubt that for a second.  And I understand the blood lust for vengeance.

But we're supposed to be the good guys.

If we do stuff because our enemies would do the same then we are no different from them.  And no better.
Title: Re: Bin Ladens Dead
Post by: krennon on May 03, 2011, 02:54:51 PM
Exactly that's why I said I do agree with your post but I also understand the "want" of the american people (and those affected by the losses particularly relating to 9/11) to air their happiness and jubilation that OBL is no more....I would have preferred him to have been taken alive and put on trial but that alas did not happen and IF the reports are true that i've read in the paper and online, he was in fact given the opportunity to surrender but allegedly chose instead to use one of his wives as a human shield and promptly opened fire on the U.S. special forces.....and yep you're right we are supposed to be the good guys but even the good guys do get it wrong sometimes...But I do think the U.S. should try and tone down it's celebration that OBL has been killed at the end of the day a human life has been taken and that should never be cause for a celebration really
Title: Re: Bin Ladens Dead
Post by: Bigbill on May 03, 2011, 04:41:15 PM

A death is a death,,,,watching the yanks partying in their cites was rather sad in my view,,not much to celebrate really,
world terrorism will continue,,,another brutal leader of A Q will appear,,,globaly we have Mugabe,Gaddafi,,,its spreading,,,,
if only all these struggles for Democracy could be successful-THEN we would have cause to smile,,,,
sorry if thats not the most PC of views,,,,the dead dont come back,there is no equaling of any score,,,,,,


 
Title: Re: Bin Ladens Dead
Post by: michaelb104 on May 03, 2011, 04:54:58 PM
Are we going to see any difference now he is not around?? – I don’t think so.  Those who want to bomb will bomb, those who want to stop them will keep trying, and every now and again one of them will get lucky.

I just hope that the security/intelligence forces get all of the luck.