Camera Craniums

General Category => General Photography => Topic started by: Just Dave on January 27, 2011, 07:32:39 PM

Title: My First Outdoor Night Shoot
Post by: Just Dave on January 27, 2011, 07:32:39 PM
Hi

Last night me and a few friend went to Liverpool Castle Rivington, for our first model outdoor night shoot, heres the images any comments and help appreciated. how did I do

(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5053/5392607360_8ebb701c3f_b.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/davenjulie/5392607360/)
Joanne Night Shoot At Liverpool Castle Rivington Chorley Lancashire (http://www.flickr.com/photos/davenjulie/5392607360/) by Just Daves Photos (http://www.flickr.com/people/davenjulie/), on Flickr

BW Version
(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5140/5393328644_6fb191cf2a_b.jpg)

(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5058/5392627059_c93bd4ac9b_b.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/davenjulie/5392627059/)
Joanne Night Shoot At Liverpool Castle Rivington Chorley Lancashire (http://www.flickr.com/photos/davenjulie/5392627059/) by Just Daves Photos (http://www.flickr.com/people/davenjulie/), on Flickr
BW Version

(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5133/5393328718_4bd98849cc_b.jpg)

(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5137/5392626927_c2334a551c_b.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/davenjulie/5392626927/)
Joanne Night Shoot At Liverpool Castle Rivington Chorley Lancashire (http://www.flickr.com/photos/davenjulie/5392626927/) by Just Daves Photos (http://www.flickr.com/people/davenjulie/), on Flickr

BW Version

(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5011/5392731097_2b29f4fa98_b.jpg)


Dave
Title: Re: My First Outdoor Night Shoot
Post by: SimonW on January 27, 2011, 08:02:51 PM
For me, I much prefer the mono ones - I think it's because the touch of green of grass detracts from the colour versions. For me they would probably work better if you just browned out the green.  Pretty good shots anyway, and I hope the model didn't get too cold.

Title: Re: My First Outdoor Night Shoot
Post by: picsfor on January 27, 2011, 08:14:30 PM
Agree with Simon, monotones are preferable.

Not happy with the pose, but you appear to have got the lighting right...

Mind you, i've got another shoot on Saturday (if my camera holds out  ???) so we'll see if i can do any better then!

But if you want to see how a pro would do - follow this link...

http://peoplebyryan.com/photoblog/paris-cool

yeah it's one of Jonathan's - but i'm sure he would have givne you the link himself once he logged in  ;)
Title: Re: My First Outdoor Night Shoot
Post by: alan1572 on January 27, 2011, 09:28:08 PM
the first mono for me, nice shooting
Title: Re: My First Outdoor Night Shoot
Post by: skellum on January 28, 2011, 12:56:05 AM
The model seems to be concentrating her attention to a photographer on the far left which I thought would of been the best angle for the shot.  You can tell the photographer is talking to her. Then again if your in a group you have no choice.
If you give me a ring and arrange your own model you could experiment in my shop/studio.... :legit:
Title: Re: My First Outdoor Night Shoot
Post by: Trickee on January 28, 2011, 08:07:42 AM
Not tried anything like this yet so i can only tell you what i see.

The pose looks a little awkward and for colour the green is a distraction mono definitely looks better as others have said.
The background wall is very gritty i would have got closer and done some head and shoulder shots. Would of tried to use the lines on the wall to lead in towards her face.
She's a cracking looking model.
Did you take any other shots with her standing? or leaning against the wall. Hard if your in a group to get into position.
lighting looks great. :tup:


How much does this sort of thing cost Dave?
Title: Re: My First Outdoor Night Shoot
Post by: Jonathan on January 28, 2011, 08:16:23 AM
Yeah it looks like you had fun.  Couple of things.....

1. (and this is the big one for me) it doesn't look like a night shoot.  If you're going to shoot at night then it's really nice to include some clues that it's night.  This is an evenly illuminated area with a girl sitting in it.  Joe McNally has some quote about the bits you don't light being more important than those you do.

2. 27mm is never going to be a flattering lens for portraiture.  You have to be ultra careful to keep the back parallel to the subject.  Looks like you've done a good job of that but coupled with the posing I don't think this is particularly flattering - especially the first shot(s) where her lifted leg bunches the dress together and makes it look like she has huge thighs.

3. Do you have any other poses?  Always good to shoot a range and see what works.
Title: Re: My First Outdoor Night Shoot
Post by: Oldboy on January 28, 2011, 06:00:00 PM

Joe McNally has some quote about the bits you don't light being more important than those you do.


That sounds rude!  :P
Title: Re: My First Outdoor Night Shoot
Post by: nickt on January 28, 2011, 10:14:03 PM
Would a snoot be better (or a grid) as the light falloff would be a bit more dramatic. It would also show that it was a night shoot. Wre you using flashguns or studio lights?

Nick
Title: Re: My First Outdoor Night Shoot
Post by: Just Dave on January 28, 2011, 10:51:01 PM
Thanks very much for all your feedback and ideas,

Joanne isnt a pro model, she just modelled for us, I think she did great we were there 4 hours, it was freezing, we had good fun and a laugh,

We had 2 safari flash lights and soft boxes, torches and I had my flashgun on and off camera,

this is Haley in the next shot, Im not to happy with her hand, mainly fingers, I have some more that more night time portrait, I will post them for further crit I learned quite a lot from the night, thanks again for all your help and comments,

Jonathan what lens would you suggest please

Dave thats a great idea, I have friends who will model,

(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4078/5396466694_e8eafef6e3_b.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/davenjulie/5396466694/)
Hayley Night Shoot At Liverpool Castle Rivington Chorley Lancashire (http://www.flickr.com/photos/davenjulie/5396466694/) by Just Daves Photos (http://www.flickr.com/people/davenjulie/), on Flickr

(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5173/5396466820_31fa7dddc3_b.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/davenjulie/5396466820/)
Hayley Night Shoot At Liverpool Castle Rivington Chorley Lancashire (http://www.flickr.com/photos/davenjulie/5396466820/) by Just Daves Photos (http://www.flickr.com/people/davenjulie/), on Flickr

Dave
Title: Re: My First Outdoor Night Shoot
Post by: Jonathan on January 29, 2011, 08:21:35 AM
Joanne isnt a pro model, she just modelled for us, I think she did great we were there 4 hours, it was freezing, we had good fun and a laugh,

She did great.  But that's also part of your problem.  First time for you, first time for her - what are the odds it will be perfect...?

The pic that Picsfor linked to is with a professional model.  I literally have "models" emailing me most days asking me to photograph with them.  But I wanted something very specific so I got Anita to model for me because I knew that she would be great.  It's like squash - play with people better than yourself and you'll improve a lot faster.

We had 2 safari flash lights and soft boxes, torches and I had my flashgun on and off camera,

Wow - LOADS of power.  Those Safaris are cool (I think I'm contractually obliged to say that since Lencarta started paying me...).

this is Haley in the next shot, Im not to happy with her hand, mainly fingers, I have some more that more night time portrait, I will post them for further crit I learned quite a lot from the night, thanks again for all your help and comments,

The problem with her hand is the lens again.  It's at the edge of the frame and slightly closer.  A trick of optics makes it look massive.

This one's kind of nice but the lighting it a little flat for me.  Was it small softbox/bare flash at the front slightly to camera left?

A light behind her to give some nice rim would have looked cool.

Jonathan what lens would you suggest please

Longer ;)  I do more than perhaps I should with my 24 - 70 but for portraits I use the long end.  For preference I often use the 70 - 200 set at 100 - 150 ish for full length.  That means being quite a long way away and it takes practise to maintain rapport at that distance.  Lots of fashion togs like a 300mm for outdoors though you practically have to phone your model up to tell them to move.  I just got a 105 DC so I suspect I'll be playing with that a lot soon :D
Title: Re: My First Outdoor Night Shoot
Post by: nickt on January 29, 2011, 08:40:30 AM
Jonathan, how did you get the blue toning in your shot. Was it done in post production?

Nick
Title: Re: My First Outdoor Night Shoot
Post by: Just Dave on January 29, 2011, 01:02:20 PM
Many thanks Jonathan for taking the time to give advice,

Yes big learning curve needed,

I think the Safaris are 600 Watt each, flippin 12v batteries are nearly as big as car ones LOL

I cant afford a new lens at the moment, I have a sigma 105mm macro/prime 2.8  is that any better Id love a 70-200L but I need to save up

Think I used a off camera flash with a snood, really I need to make notes, but it was real dark, Ive got a Dictaphone so could make verbal notes but then Id feel stupid LOL

Ive got a free tutored shoot in a studio on the 9th feb at a Preston studio called Studio Events   Clicky linky (http://www.studioevents.co.uk/) I know its a Promotion thing, but the experience will be good

Cheers Jonathan, I'll post the pics from then and I expect you to be super critical  :legit:



Title: Re: My First Outdoor Night Shoot
Post by: Skhilled on January 29, 2011, 01:22:27 PM
You can tell she isn't a pro model but she does have a special charm about her. :)
Title: Re: My First Outdoor Night Shoot
Post by: Just Dave on January 29, 2011, 09:32:04 PM
You can tell she isn't a pro model but she does have a special charm about her. :)

I never said they were pro, just a couple of friends willing to freeze and model for us, both did fab, even daring to get changed BRRRRRRR,

I learned loads, about lighting, well I think I did, got a better idea now, a bit trial and error, but hey It was a fun night, thats what its about, some of the pix came out good well for me anyway can see theres plenty of room for improvement  I agree :tup:

I have a couple more then thats it I promise LOL  (well from this shoot  :legit:)
Title: Re: My First Outdoor Night Shoot
Post by: Skhilled on January 29, 2011, 09:34:57 PM
I just wish I lived closer so I could shoot her. ;)
Title: Re: My First Outdoor Night Shoot
Post by: Just Dave on January 30, 2011, 11:14:23 AM
Last 3 of  Hayley, how are these

(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5100/5397942404_643f83d3c2_b.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/davenjulie/5397942404/)
Hayley Night Shoot At Liverpool Castle Rivington Chorley Lancashire (http://www.flickr.com/photos/davenjulie/5397942404/) by Just Daves Photos (http://www.flickr.com/people/davenjulie/), on Flickr

(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5172/5397942040_942f82e65d_b.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/davenjulie/5397942040/)
Hayley Night Shoot At Liverpool Castle Rivington Chorley Lancashire (http://www.flickr.com/photos/davenjulie/5397942040/) by Just Daves Photos (http://www.flickr.com/people/davenjulie/), on Flickr

(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5052/5400849178_ecd4de9a49_b.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/davenjulie/5400849178/)
Hayley Night Shoot At Liverpool Castle Rivington Chorley Lancashire (http://www.flickr.com/photos/davenjulie/5400849178/) by Just Daves Photos (http://www.flickr.com/people/davenjulie/), on Flickr
Title: Re: My First Outdoor Night Shoot
Post by: Jonathan on February 01, 2011, 08:55:42 AM
Jonathan, how did you get the blue toning in your shot. Was it done in post production?

Done in camera and exaggerated in post.  CTO on the flash, tungsten white balance on the camera.  Old school.

I just wish I lived closer so I could shoot her. ;)

Um, there are willing models pretty much all over.  Most big towns have an agency.

Last 3 of  Hayley, how are these

First one of those is by far my least favourite.  You've used twin lights to give the effect of (1) pretty flat lighting and (2) making her face look fat (which it isn't).  Google up broad lighting ;)  Pose is also v awkward - she's pushing herself back into the rock and this is making her chin come down so the flap of skin that lets you talk looks like a double chin.

Last one looks a bit underlit and dark  Not sure this makes for a great B&W.

BTW, you know I said I'd got a 105DC?  First portrait (with DC turned OFF - I need to practise with that).  http://peoplebyryan.com/photoblog/will-power
Title: Re: My First Outdoor Night Shoot
Post by: picsfor on February 01, 2011, 12:41:35 PM
I'm fractionally more experienced at this than you Dave - and probably a year ago i would have been pleased with these.

I agree with Jonathan re the pose and it making her looking more over weight than she is. But experience is something that will fix that, that  and honest critique.
Lighting, i'm getting the hang of it with each passing shoot, but be warned - it is infectious and will add more to your wish list (though not all that expensive for a lot of it)

Have look on here for your local Flickr strobist group, i think there is a north west group, join them and join in some of their shoots.
Couldn't recommend a better place to learn...
Title: Re: My First Outdoor Night Shoot
Post by: Just Dave on February 01, 2011, 08:23:54 PM
Many thanks Jonathan,  :tup:

 a question will my sigma 105 macro, be all right for portrait shots

Thanks Andrew hope to improve with more experience, thanks for the heads up I'll have a look for strobist sites and groups  :tup:

oh yes my studio shoot has been cancelled shame I was well looking forward to it :(
Title: Re: My First Outdoor Night Shoot
Post by: picsfor on February 01, 2011, 11:05:14 PM
Dave,

a 100mm (approx)  macro lens is definitely a good lens to shoot portraits with - so much control over DoF.

Especially if you can't afford that nice lens Jonathan has just come by!

Used my 100mm macro many a time for portraits - great for blowing out the back ground. Almost as good as 50mm f1.8...
Title: Re: My First Outdoor Night Shoot
Post by: Jonathan on February 02, 2011, 08:53:50 AM
I've not used the Sigma but 105 macros tend to make nice portrait lenses.  It's a decent length.  It might be a bit unforgiving to skin texture but nothing you can't fix with noce light and maybe some retouch.
Title: Re: My First Outdoor Night Shoot
Post by: Just Dave on February 03, 2011, 09:49:52 AM
Thanks Andrew Ill give the 105 a go with portraits

Thanks Jonathan