Camera Craniums

General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: CML-1591 on June 30, 2010, 10:23:31 PM

Title: 16 year old photographer detained...
Post by: CML-1591 on June 30, 2010, 10:23:31 PM
This is going around our #cuphot twitter thing so thought others would like to know...

http://photographyprison.tumblr.com/post/749968801/this-16-year-old-is-my-new-hero-photographer

The situation could have been avoided if the kid was a little less mouthy, good that he stood up for it all but a little less...
Title: Re: 16 year old photographer detained...
Post by: ABERS on June 30, 2010, 11:11:11 PM
What I found interesting was that the coppers were totally perplexed and unsure of their ground when he kept asking under what law he was being detained or warned under. They were reduced to grasping at straws in he end. It seemed that the fact he was recording everything was making them very nervous.

It only goes to show the large array of laws that are available to the police if they really want to nick you. ???

Full credit to the lad for sticking to his guns.
Title: Re: 16 year old photographer detained...
Post by: Hinfrance on July 01, 2010, 06:23:33 AM
Wrongful arrest - pennies in his pocket. That plod just cost his force a pretty penny.

He was being silly. Glad to hear that this is now a criminal offence.
Title: Re: 16 year old photographer detained...
Post by: Graham on July 01, 2010, 06:40:32 AM
     Well yes, he's a gobby little sod but hat's off to him all the same.
     If he's in the way (No law against that.) let him do his job and ask to move along a bit.
     I suspect what gets most photographers backs up, is when police, security or whoever start talking about "Photographing children" and "Terrorism" with obvious and insulting insinuations.
     If there was an obstruction or breach of the peace then I doubt it was caused by a lone photographer....a photographer surrounded by a bunch of police officers, quite possibly.
                         Graham.
Title: Re: 16 year old photographer detained...
Post by: picsfor on July 01, 2010, 08:46:59 AM
I'm with the tog on this.
Photographing a parade, military or otherwise, is something that has been going on for years. In fact the news seems quite keen to report as many of these events as possible.
So what was Met Plod thinking of?

Yes, he may have been a gobby little sod but his arguments were well formed, his statements and questions were well presented and, it is this that I think, upset plod.
He didn't like it when it was pointed out to him that is actions were wrong on many counts.

The term "bully" comes to mind where this plod and his colleagues were concerned. Sue the police force? I would expect a variety of groups willing to stand up to take this on as a way of raising the profile of this issue once again...
Title: Re: 16 year old photographer detained...
Post by: hevans on July 01, 2010, 09:21:49 AM
Of all the voices in the audio, the photographer's was probably the most level headed, and none of his questions were answered by the police, who did appear to be grasping at straws. Of course he didn't seem to be answering their questions (but did provide his ID when requested, a sign of cooperation), but he didn't have to unless the police provide the particular law under which they are entitled to the details. 

I'm inclined to believe that the original police officer probably made an initial (small) mistake, and rather than admit it, and back down, had to keep going to avoid losing face, the illusion of authority and hope the accused capitulated. Not a strategy that should be heavily adopted by the police.

Is there any more to the story, i.e. a follow up on what happened after the audio went dead?

What is it with photographing children in public spaces? The law is quite clear: if you're in a public space you have no right to privacy, regardless of age. Or is there another law prohibiting photographing children entirely?

H
Title: Re: 16 year old photographer detained...
Post by: picsfor on July 01, 2010, 10:43:08 AM
Or is there another law prohibiting photographing children entirely?

Yes, it's called "I'm a Professional Police Officer, Community Police Officer, Door Man, Bouncer, Work for a Security Firm, Wear an HVV as part of my uniform: all of which gives me the right to order any one about, whether legal or not, and have them arrested if they don't do as i tell them"

About sums it up.
Title: Re: 16 year old photographer detained...
Post by: Trickee on July 01, 2010, 01:53:59 PM
I think i would have taken the same stance as the photographer-sounds very unprofessional how the police dealt with this when true serious crimes are being committed.
Title: Re: 16 year old photographer detained...
Post by: Oldboy on July 01, 2010, 02:13:27 PM
It sums up the attitude of the Met police.  >:( Be interesting to see what happens if it goes to court.  :tup:
Title: Re: 16 year old photographer detained...
Post by: hevans on July 01, 2010, 03:37:53 PM
I wonder where the funding comes from that pays these fines (like in the Greek Embassy decision (http://www.journalism.co.uk/2/articles/539359.php)). Does it come from the police officer's wages, or from the Met's own budget?

If you or I are caught speeding while travelling for work, we're expected to pay the fine, not the company. Does it cut both ways?  I Doubt it.

£3500 × 2 is a pretty small amount for the Met to fork out, and it is the taypayer's money as well! Not much of a punishment for the Met. And it probably isn't enough to warrant a dressing down of the officers, probably looked on more as an occupational hazard.

H.

BTW, more info here: http://julesmattsson.wordpress.com/2010/06/28/the-romford-incident/ (http://julesmattsson.wordpress.com/2010/06/28/the-romford-incident/), including links to other reports.
Title: Re: 16 year old photographer detained...
Post by: nickt on July 01, 2010, 07:27:16 PM
The police clearly have no idea what they're talking about. First they tried to bully him, then tell him he can't take photos of the military or of people in public places.They couldn't answer his questions and then accuse him of photographing children! On top of that, he gets thrown down the stairs and profanes. He's then told, he's an agitator. On this evidence if it goes to court, the police don't stand a chance.
Title: Re: 16 year old photographer detained...
Post by: Oldboy on July 01, 2010, 07:56:46 PM
The police clearly have no idea what they're talking about. First they tried to bully him, then tell him he can't take photos of the military or of people in public places.They couldn't answer his questions and then accuse him of photographing children! On top of that, he gets thrown down the stairs and profanes. He's then told, he's an agitator. On this evidence if it goes to court, the police don't stand a chance.

Without the recording who would believe a 16 year old lad? The courts would take the word of the police officer everytime.  :(
Title: Re: 16 year old photographer detained...
Post by: picsfor on July 01, 2010, 09:05:06 PM
Without the recording who would believe a 16 year old lad? The courts would take the word of the police officer everytime.  :(

And that's what makes it all so worrying - that our Police are turning out not to be the pillars of law that we should be able to put our trust in!
Title: Re: 16 year old photographer detained...
Post by: spinner on July 07, 2010, 03:28:45 PM
What I cannot comprehend in all of this, is why, after all of the publicity surrounding these incidents. Negative to the extreme for the Police. Why they continue to happen. Who the hell is in charge here? Either the Police have a right and a duty which can be clearly defended by a statute or they don't. If they don't, why hasn't someone taken them to task? And by someone I mean upper levels of gov't.
Title: Re: 16 year old photographer detained...
Post by: spinner on July 07, 2010, 03:49:45 PM
My God. They stopped him again.

http://www.bjp-online.com/british-journal-of-photography/news/1721000/young-photographer-detained-section-terrorism-act

This time he was actually doing a shoot for the Cadet organization.
Title: Re: 16 year old photographer detained...
Post by: Oldboy on July 07, 2010, 07:13:17 PM
My God. They stopped him again.

http://www.bjp-online.com/british-journal-of-photography/news/1721000/young-photographer-detained-section-terrorism-act

This time he was actually doing a shoot for the Cadet organization.

His card had been marked!  :'(
Title: Re: 16 year old photographer detained...
Post by: anglefire on July 07, 2010, 08:14:56 PM
I agree Oldboy, he is going to be watched.

I find the whole thing quite disgusting to be honest. Our photographic rights are being sold down the river on the grounds of terrorism. And then they let a car drive down every street in Britain [and Europe etc] and post it on the web for every nutter to see.
Title: Re: 16 year old photographer detained...
Post by: spinner on July 07, 2010, 09:37:12 PM
And then they let a car drive down every street in Britain [and Europe etc] and post it on the web for every nutter to see.

Hey, I used that to look at my Grannie's old house in Clydebank!  ;D
Title: Re: 16 year old photographer detained...
Post by: ABERS on July 27, 2010, 10:54:13 PM

May be of further interest.

http://www.bjp-online.com/british-journal-of-photography/news/1724916/met-commissioner-i-guarantee-photography-guidelines-interpreted
Title: Re: 16 year old photographer detained...
Post by: Graham on July 28, 2010, 05:47:08 AM

May be of further interest.

http://www.bjp-online.com/british-journal-of-photography/news/1724916/met-commissioner-i-guarantee-photography-guidelines-interpreted
         Thanks. Very much of interest.
                             Graham.
Title: Re: 16 year old photographer detained...
Post by: picsfor on July 28, 2010, 07:10:06 AM
Most interesting, but at the same time, most worrying.
"Lip service" is the phrase that seems to come to mind after reading and watching the comment.
Title: Re: 16 year old photographer detained...
Post by: skellum on July 28, 2010, 09:10:21 AM
I have never had a problem here in Lancashire with street photography but having supplied the local police force with local pictures for their police stations I keep a copy of an e.mail from the local Chief Supperintendant requesting my services in my camera bag just in case. On one occasion while waiting to photograph Princess Ann leaving a local charity we were asked / instructed by a police officer not to photograph her getting into her car which would be picking her up directly in view of a pub called the Old Dog..... :legit:
Title: Re: 16 year old photographer detained...
Post by: picsfor on July 28, 2010, 03:04:42 PM
On one occasion while waiting to photograph Princess Ann leaving a local charity we were asked / instructed by a police officer not to photograph her getting into her car which would be picking her up directly in view of a pub called the Old Dog..... :legit:

Yes, i remember the picture you never got well  :tup: