Camera Craniums

General Category => General Photography => Topic started by: Graham on March 11, 2010, 05:05:46 PM

Title: Mmmm! What to do?
Post by: Graham on March 11, 2010, 05:05:46 PM
     Now then , as you may know I do a fair bit of "Gig picery". This involves contacting agents, promoters, managers and so on for photographers accreditation.
     I have been granted permission to photograph a "Major covers band" next week. So far, so good.
     A line in the email states "We would like high res copies of all photos taken and we will allow you to stay for the whole show."
     When I say they are a major covers band , that means that they are profesional musicians and It's how they've all made their living for the last twenty odd years. But being a covers band the images would be of little comercial value outside the bands own publicity machine.
     
     So. Should I do it?
     
     My first thought is that they are not having "All photo's taken". Only the ones I am happy to release. And that I am only going to give (ie Gratis) them web size pics , which is my policy anyway.
        I already have my own thoughts on how to proceed, but I would be very grateful for any of your thoughts.
                                   Graham. :-\

Title: Re: Mmmm! What to do?
Post by: Malcolm1938 on March 11, 2010, 05:22:44 PM
Hi Gaham

The phrase "we would like" does not in my book mean "we expect to get".

I would reply to their email stating that while you are happy to supply VGA images of shots you consider keepers you charge for hi res images so do they really want them all at £xx.00 each.

If they say you cant go does it really matter because it looks to me as if that's your decision already unless they back off.

Whatever happens - Good Luck
Malcolm
Title: Re: Mmmm! What to do?
Post by: skellum on March 11, 2010, 05:24:08 PM
I would offer them the web sized pictures as normal and suggest any that they like in particular can be supplied in high resolution at a agreed price. Or a reduced rate with the inclusion of your accreditation on all future use..... Hope this is a help in your decision......Regards, Dave... :legit:
Title: Re: Mmmm! What to do?
Post by: Graham on March 12, 2010, 06:44:19 PM
  Hi folks and thanks for the replies.
          I've mailed them back offering to supply all photo's processed ,which is what I would do anyway (They clearly have no idea just how much junk I delete :2funny:)
          I've said that they will be supplied ready sized for the web/MyFace etc.
          I worded it in such a way that they will be expecting Annie Leibovitz's photography teacher.
          If they insist on full size images I will politley decline their kind invitation and stay in and watch Masterchef instead.
                         Watch this space for the reply.
                                    Cheers for now.  Graham. :tup:
Title: Re: Mmmm! What to do?
Post by: Graham on March 14, 2010, 07:14:47 PM
     Well, they've just got back to me and are happy with my terms.
     The band is "The Bootleg Beatles" and it apears that there will be a stand in "Paul" on the night and they may want me to attend on another night
     with proper pretend "Paul"! If that's the case they'er going to have to pay me! 8)
                            Anybody seen them?
                                                   Graham.
Title: Re: Mmmm! What to do?
Post by: Oldboy on March 14, 2010, 11:04:24 PM
Had them at the Night-out in Birmingham about twenty-five years ago or so.  :o
Title: Re: Mmmm! What to do?
Post by: Bigbill on March 15, 2010, 07:52:52 PM
Hello Graham,,,,,

I went through a phase in Sheffy of trying to get into the local music scene,,,,,and binned it,thing is around here NOBODY gets paid,half the time that includes the Muso,s,,,,,,,
Only people making money are the venue owners via £3-50 CANS of crap lager,,,,,,this actualy hurt my progress in one way in that i now dont do any bands(though i have a biggie coming up in May-more later),
But,i,m glad i stuck to my one main principle,,,,,,no pay NO ME  !!!!!!
G your good at what you do,,why consider working without pay,,let alone giving anything away for free,,,,,,sorry if i seem finalistic but i learnt a long while ago,you can do a whole lot of work for nothing !!

Shine On
Title: Re: Mmmm! What to do?
Post by: picsfor on March 15, 2010, 08:21:42 PM
G your good at what you do,,why consider working without pay,,let alone giving anything away for free,,,,,,sorry if i seem finalistic but i learnt a long while ago,you can do a whole lot of work for nothing !!

Question is Bill, do you think the freebie work helped to build up your confidence to realise that your work was good enough to be paid for or did you just have too many friends you wanted to help?
It strikes me that all togs seem to do some pro bono stuff whilst they are perfecting their style and getting their name out there.
The difference seems to be when they reached that point which you referred to as "no payment - no me"

I'm glad i can still enjoy it as a hobby.
Title: Re: Mmmm! What to do?
Post by: Bigbill on March 15, 2010, 09:03:20 PM
Hewwo from Shivery Sheffy,,,,

Thats a Q each person can only answer for themselves,,,,
LOTS of togs do LOTS of work for free on the music scene round here,,,,,,
I dont,,,,,just go see any gig around here and there will be the eager tog,,,working away,sending pics to various websites etc etc and thats then the end of it,,,
Good luck to you G,,hope the scene there is more rewarding than it is here,,,
Footnote,,,,,,sheffy mob the Arctic Monkeys gave all their early stuff away for free because of the scene round here,,,,,,look at them now !!

Shine On
Title: Re: Mmmm! What to do?
Post by: Graham on March 20, 2010, 10:39:40 AM
   Ok, so I did it!

          (http://cameracraniums.com/gallery/albums/userpics/web_DSC0767.jpg)

   Thanks to Bill and Andrew for the comments re payment.
           Bill, it's kind of you to say that I'm good at what I do (As big a compliment as I could ask for.). If I did'nt do it without pay, I would'nt do it at all.
           I get a hell of a "Buzz" out of it and money is'nt part of the equation as I have a full time job and to be honest if I was being paid to come up with the goods then the presure would be doubled and I suspect I would'nt enjoy it so much.
           I "work" for a council funded charity which encourages young musicians by putting on workshops and so on showing them how the buisness works and how to make the most of it. Six or seven times a year they put on a show at Derby's Assembly Rooms where the get to play on a big(ish) stage with profesional sound and lighting and an ace photographer (Me stupid! >:() who provides them with little webpics which the can stick on their "MyFace" sites. This gives me an oportunity to exersise my trigger finger and I get a warm&fuzzy feeling seeing the the kind of folks that we all seem to give a very wide berth when we meet them on the street doing something positive with there lives.
          A couple of weeks age I had an email from the organisers saying that they had recieved the finance for the next years shows and that they had been able to "Find" £150.00 for me in recognition of my efforts. I've never made any noises about payment, it's just something they decided to do.
          Through this I have got to know the venues managment and when a show comes up that I fancy photographing they give me the kind of contact details you don't find on any website.
          I recently photographed Beth Nielson Chapman and as it was a particulaly "Intimate" show her managment were anxious that I be as discreet as posible. The email of thanks and it's comments on my "Professionalism" has since been framed!

      Thanks again for the interest.  Graham.

   PS In a couple of weeks I,ll be snapping those N-Dubz chaps (Yo B!tch)
Title: Re: Mmmm! What to do?
Post by: picsfor on March 20, 2010, 03:27:43 PM
Nice piccy Graham - and a bit more respect for yours and others efforts in getting these shots after trying this type of photography the other week.
Like you, i was not being paid or any thing, pretty much there to support the guys cos i work with one of them, but they have used some of my pics on their myspace and other sites and credited me with a link to my Flickr page - and i'm chuffed to bits.

Unlike you, i do not think being paid would have made any difference on the pressure to get the shots. Once i have a shot in mind i put myself under enough pressure to get the shot so payment would not really help - not least of which i only have a single body kit at the moment and i would need to be offered considerably more than a few hundred quid to make it worth my while to commit to a paid for event so i could cover the hiring or purchasing of a second body.

It seems like you have a nice arrangement there and my view is enjoy it whilst it is working...
Oh - and "respect   8)" on getting to shoot N-Dubz
Title: Re: Mmmm! What to do?
Post by: greypoint on March 20, 2010, 03:38:05 PM
N-Dubz - never heard of them but I suspect ear plugs might be the order of the day  :2funny:
Title: Re: Mmmm! What to do?
Post by: Graham on March 21, 2010, 11:03:27 AM
N-Dubz - never heard of them but I suspect ear plugs might be the order of the day  :2funny:

        Here you are Sue.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7nj1Ck_k53U      

                      Graham.  :-\                               
Title: Re: Mmmm! What to do?
Post by: picsfor on March 21, 2010, 11:08:57 AM
see - bucket loads of piccy opportunities. Probably need 3 or 4 sets of batteries for the flash gun and all of my 16gb of memory cards...
Title: Re: Mmmm! What to do?
Post by: greypoint on March 21, 2010, 11:15:24 AM
Ah yes - singers who don't actually sing [at least in the few seconds I listened!] - just talk in the same odd way to a backing track......this stuff has always passed me by entirely I'm afraid - must be an age thing 8) ....and some people say jazz is'nt music!!
Title: Re: Mmmm! What to do?
Post by: picsfor on March 21, 2010, 11:27:52 AM
I'm luckier in that i enjoy just about every form of music. Horses for courses.
I've seen the documentaries where Elvis was considered the Devil Incarnate and the Beatles were the not exactly welcomed either.
My current music list comprises Prokofiev, Tenek  and the Travelling Wilbury's - there's a mixture  :tup:
Title: Re: Mmmm! What to do?
Post by: greypoint on March 21, 2010, 12:14:48 PM
I have very wide musical tastes - everything from folk/roots/blues to the odd aria - taking in rock 'n roll/rockabilly/r 'n b [the real sort not what they now mean by the term!]/soul through singer songwriters and groups of all kinds to cool jazz and even 1930s dance bands.....but talking in an odd rhythm just does'nt do it for me :2funny:
Title: Re: Mmmm! What to do?
Post by: picsfor on March 21, 2010, 12:18:13 PM
Music - almost as controversial as Photography  :tup: :doh:
Title: Re: Mmmm! What to do?
Post by: Graham on March 21, 2010, 02:33:49 PM
see - bucket loads of piccy opportunities. Probably need 3 or 4 sets of batteries for the flash gun and all of my 16gb of memory cards...

         I should be so lucky (lucky, lucky, lucky :2funny:) It'll be first three/no flash.
         It's not my type of music by any means but I'm sure it's going to be a fun evening "getting down with my homies".
         The venue has a 2000 capacity and was sold out months ago with the punters paying £30.00 a ticket. Me? I have my usual pass, a parking space in the backstage compound with the tour busses and I expect to be carried to my space in the photographer's pit in a sedan chair!

                         Wish me luck.  Graham. :tup:

       By the way, 4 days after that I'm "Doing" Joan Armatrading. :)
         
Title: Re: Mmmm! What to do?
Post by: Jonathan on March 21, 2010, 03:18:43 PM
       By the way, 4 days after that I'm "Doing" Joan Armatrading. :)

Hmm, you might struggle on the 3 songs rule there.  Did she do another one....?
Title: Re: Mmmm! What to do?
Post by: Graham on March 21, 2010, 03:51:16 PM
      By the way, 4 days after that I'm "Doing" Joan Armatrading. :)

Hmm, you might struggle on the 3 songs rule there.  Did she do another one....?
   Oh Jonathan, you are a card! :2funny:

      But that is a good point with the first three rule.
      With the "Beatles" show they work through the "set" (as we rock&rollers call it.) in chronological order and so three songs takes about 6 1/2 mins. Last week I snapped prog rock super hero Steve Howe and It's only by good fortune that I'm not still there now!
                     As Ever.  Graham.
Title: Re: Mmmm! What to do?
Post by: greypoint on March 21, 2010, 03:53:17 PM
Joan Armatrading now you're talking! Drop The Pilot- Me,Myself.I - Willow -Love and Affection - The Weakness in Me - Show Some Affection - I'm Lucky...... :tup:
Title: Re: Mmmm! What to do?
Post by: Graham on March 21, 2010, 04:03:25 PM
Joan Armatrading now you're talking! Drop The Pilot- Me,Myself.I - Willow -Love and Affection - The Weakness in Me - Show Some Affection - I'm Lucky...... :tup:
           And there's another 20 or so you could add to that list!
                                :tup: indeed.
Title: Re: Mmmm! What to do?
Post by: picsfor on March 21, 2010, 04:22:01 PM
If you want to hand your pass over for N-Dubz i'm game to pretend to be you for the night  :tup:

Ultimately they are manufactured for a modern audience and everything is about the show.
Look at the group make up - that's a wide audience appeal just in the make up alone.
The music seems to bridge several styles of 'modern' music - nope they'll make some one bucket loads of dosh and have their 15 minutes of fame and 1 of them may even ed up making it on the d list celeb circuit doing loose women or grumpy young men - sort of thing.

Right back to Abba  :o
Title: Re: Mmmm! What to do?
Post by: anglefire on March 21, 2010, 04:40:09 PM
Gimme, Gimme, Gimme, ...................

 :2funny:
Title: Re: Mmmm! What to do?
Post by: greypoint on March 21, 2010, 04:49:26 PM
One of the consolations of growing old - you don't have to pretend to like the latest 'cool' music :2funny:
Title: Re: Mmmm! What to do?
Post by: Jonathan on March 21, 2010, 05:00:11 PM
Last week I snapped prog rock super hero Steve Howe and It's only by good fortune that I'm not still there now!

I saw Kid Creole and the Coconuts in an open air concert at Kew.  Annie I'm not your Daddy lasted about 45 minutes.

But then they really did only have about 4 songs.
Title: Re: Mmmm! What to do?
Post by: picsfor on March 21, 2010, 06:48:52 PM
I saw Kid Creole and the Coconuts in an open air concert at Kew.  Annie I'm not your Daddy lasted about 45 minutes.
But then they really did only have about 4 songs.
It's a big place and catching some one to take the microphone off can be a problematic pursuit  :2funny:
And for the music triangle - name the other 4 songs :tup:
Title: Re: Mmmm! What to do?
Post by: Graham on April 03, 2010, 09:38:59 AM
     Well. I did the N-dubz thing last night and without doubt the toughest show to date.
     Loads of security and very tight. Not allowed to photograph the support acts, escorted into the "Pit" and out again after the first three, the first of which was performed behind a semi-translucent screen (so no pics there.). Average concert lighting ie not a lot, and a very active show.
     Oh, and 2000 screaming hormonal 11-15 year old girlies 2 feet behind your head!
                        Graham. :D
Title: Re: Mmmm! What to do?
Post by: skellum on April 03, 2010, 11:23:37 AM
Sounds to me that a Millwall home game would of been easier to photograph..... :2funny: :legit:
Title: Re: Mmmm! What to do?
Post by: picsfor on April 03, 2010, 07:14:03 PM
nothing wrong with a Millwall home game if you're in the driving cab working their going home train  :tup:
Title: Re: Mmmm! What to do?
Post by: Graham on April 08, 2010, 05:11:35 PM
       By the way, 4 days after that I'm "Doing" Joan Armatrading. :)

Hmm, you might struggle on the 3 songs rule there.  Did she do another one....?

    Ok, you were sort of right, but I was only allowed the first TWO, and as it was an all seated show, once I had taken my position I was'nt allowed to move to get a different angle.
    This was for the benefit of the paying customers so I have absolutley no argument there.
    So, everyone is seated, I've taken my position with a monster 300mm/2.8 plus 1.4 extender all mounted on a monopod, trying and failing to look inconspicuous, and just before the lights go down they announce.
                              "NO PHOTOGRAPHY IS ALLOWED DURING THIS PERFORMANCE. ANYONE SEEN USING PHOTOGRAPHIC EQUIPMENT WILL BE ASKED TO LEAVE THE AUDITORIUM!"


     So. That's 1.200 pairs of eyes on me then! :-[

    (http://cameracraniums.com/gallery/albums/userpics/web_DSC1134.jpg)

                                   Graham.  :D
Title: Re: Mmmm! What to do?
Post by: Jonathan on April 08, 2010, 05:41:40 PM
Yeah but admit it.  That's Drop the pilot. :)
Title: Re: Mmmm! What to do?
Post by: Graham on April 08, 2010, 06:11:16 PM
Yeah but admit it.  That's Drop the pilot. :)
               Good guess!
          Actually in this pic she's on the Amer... bit from "All the way from America". :tup:

            On the way home I was wondering how someone that can write such consistently top notch songs is allso blessed with a voice from Heaven.
            I mean. That's just being greedy!
                             Graham.
Title: Re: Mmmm! What to do?
Post by: Oldboy on April 08, 2010, 07:07:31 PM
So, everyone is seated, I've taken my position with a monster 300mm/2.8 plus 1.4 extender all mounted on a monopod, trying and failing to look inconspicuous, and just before the lights go down they announce.
                              "NO PHOTOGRAPHY IS ALLOWED DURING THIS PERFORMANCE. ANYONE SEEN USING PHOTOGRAPHIC EQUIPMENT WILL BE ASKED TO LEAVE THE AUDITORIUM!"


     So. That's 1.200 pairs of eyes on me then! :-[

                                    Graham.  :D

That made you squirm then?  :-[

Cracking shot.  :tup:
Title: Re: Mmmm! What to do?
Post by: picsfor on April 08, 2010, 09:47:57 PM
So. That's 1.200 pairs of eyes on me then! :-[

Or - for the really dire quote -

me, myself 1200 eyes  :doh:
Title: Re: Mmmm! What to do?
Post by: Graham on April 09, 2010, 06:12:55 AM
So. That's 1.200 pairs of eyes on me then! :-[

Or - for the really dire quote -

me, myself 1200 eyes  :doh:
          "Dire".....Yes, that's the word I'd use! :2funny:
                             Graham.