I've always had Photoshop since I brought the full version at half-price. I've upgraded to keep it current and now use CS6. Not happy about Adobe putting the newer version into the cloud, as I don't think a server is that secure from hackers or local power outages. If you need to work on a photo for a client but the server has gone down then, that could lose you business. Also, any problems with a new release could cause your PC to crash, but you would be unable to isolate the problem, whilst using the rest of the software. It's strange that software is the only product that you can buy but never own, as that right remains with the producer forever. :o
With no disrespect to anyone, but I can't believe that Adobe did not undertake some extensive market research before going down the cloud route. They must have known there would be a degree of antipathy towards their decision from a percentage of their customer base and also realise that those that do not use their products anyway would continue to shun their products.
As far as cost is concerned there is still an offer available for current Adobe customers for a monthly fee of just 8 pounds or so a monthly, the only proviso is you sign up for a year, after which you can jump ship.
As I understand it the Cloud version is not supported on Vista, otherwise I would give it a go.
Alan, I am a long time Adobe customer - I have had three versions of Elements and two of Lightroom. The £8 per month offer is only open to those who have previously purchased a full version of CS, ie those who have already donated a shed load to the company. It is for a limited time, before racking back up to £18 per month (they don't say when), and has only been introduced as a result of the outcry against their full price policy and collapse in sales. So whoever they paid to do their market research got it really really wrong. And, as per, it's cheaper in the US than on this side of the pond. TBH if I could get it for £8 per month (or better still $9) I might be tempted too. Actually $9 would be a no brainer, despite never getting an enduring licence.
Quote from: Oldboy on November 20, 2013, 11:44:42 AMNot happy about Adobe putting the newer version into the cloud, as I don't think a server is that secure from hackers or local power outages. If you need to work on a photo for a client but the server has gone down then, that could lose you business.
That is not how it works. The software is still on your computer and it does not check every time that you have a paid licence. I cannot remember all the details, but it will work if it cannot reach the Adobe servers a couple of times.
OK, let's address what Adobe has actually done with its Cloud Software concept - and it may also understand why their market research shows they're on a winner.
Adobe is putting all of its software onto the Cloud system for licence via the Cloud system, with exception to LR & Elements which for the mean time can be purchased as per the old system.
How did they get the idea this was a wonderful idea?
Well, market research probably asked the following 2 questions
"Do you think it is expensve having to pay £500 for a copy of Photoshop CS* and then another £200 every 2 years to update it?" - of course, it goes with saying the answer would have been a yes.
Next quesion:
"If Adobe put all of their software (approx val £2000) onto a server and let you have access to it for just £200 per year inc updates, would you think that a bit of a bargain?" - wonder what the answer was?
I had a full copy of Photoshop since V6 and never really enjoyed it. I just can not grasp the concept of layers, I understand the principle - but the working is a dead loss for me. Lightroom on the other hand is right up my street and does exactly what i want, and with v5 - at a price i'm happy with. The Photoshop was sold earlier this year and nicely paid for my upgrade to LR v5.
But for many others, especially the pro and keen amateur/ semi pro market - £200 pa for Photoshop, Illustrator, InDesign, Dreamweaver, Fireworks + movie stuff - it really is a good price - just not for me.
Or to put it another way - the cost of 2 new EHD's each year to back up a;; those lovely images you're capturing :tup:
The Creative Cloud is £46.88 per month, or £562.56 per annum. The lower figure was for Photoshop and Lightroom only. Looking at the Adobe UK, it looks like the £8.78 per month plan is not limited to previous owners of CS, as the US offer is. Given the upgrade price of Lightroom as a stand alone, this is beginning to look like reasonable value. I just wonder what the renewal price will be - and there's the rub.
I downloaded the trial of Photoshop CC last evening. I haven't even bothered to open it because the first question I asked on the forums was how do I migrate my plugins. The answer is you can't. All of your plugins have to be replaced with CC specific ones. Now, it may be in time that the plugin houses produce these, and some may have already done so. Some of my plugins, however, are legacy items that will never be updated. So that's the end of my CC experiment before I even reached first base.
As an aside, I spotted from the browsing I was doing through the CC sites and forums that in the first few months they had 350,000 subscribers, but by the the end of the year the number is forecast to be 250,000. So it's really working well, NOT.
I am in 2 min ds about this. I have cs6 and lightroom 3.4 which both "do me" in real terms. Would I gain anything from getting Lightroom 5 as the update. Also re: H`s comments I have some florabella plug ins on cs6 - poor but as I rarely use them but got an offer price as well as free dxo plugins and the nik software. Would these export to any new version of cs6 or would they be lost on the upgrade. I did lose some useful plug ins when I went up to cs6 as they didn`t work with 64 version.
Quote from: jinky on November 21, 2013, 08:55:38 PM
. . . free dxo plugins and the nik software. Would these export to any new version of cs6 or would they be lost on the upgrade. I did lose some useful plug ins when I went up to cs6 as they didn`t work with 64 version.
In a word, no, none of your existing plugins will work with Photoshop CC. If there are CC compatible versions available then you will have to get and install them. 32 bit 8bf plugins will not work with 64 bit editors unless they are ported (Cubase and Reaper do this in the audio world for 32 bit VSTs although they tend to work better in the 32 bit versions). This problem works against Serif's Photoplus in 64 bit too, although Topaz plugins are available in 64 bit versions. I don't know about 64 bit Nik as it is incompatible with Photoplus, but I guess they are 64 bit too.
But as you already have CS6 there is nothing stopping you from keeping that and installing Photoshop CC as well if you want to.
Quote from: Hinfrance on November 20, 2013, 07:33:54 PM
The Creative Cloud is £46.88 per month, or £562.56 per annum. The lower figure was for Photoshop and Lightroom only. Looking at the Adobe UK, it looks like the £8.78 per month plan is not limited to previous owners of CS, as the US offer is. Given the upgrade price of Lightroom as a stand alone, this is beginning to look like reasonable value. I just wonder what the renewal price will be - and there's the rub.
Maybe the catch is, you have to join before 2 December 2013. This suggests the cost will increase at the next subscription date, with no indication of what the cost will be.
However £8.75 is a great deal for anyone wanting to get into Photoshop for the first time. Not so sure if you have already have CS6 and spent a great deal of money on Photoshop upgrades. Plus there's no mention of what the cost will be post Christmas.
I've read up a bit more on the plugins issue, and it seems that opinions differ. Adobe's support is pretty useless, but Topaz labs were pretty helpful. They suggested just simply copying the plugins folder from a 64 bit application (I used the Photoplus folder) to the plugins folder in PS CC. Low and behold, it works on my system . . so far. I have tested the Nik collection and most of my Topaz plugins and they all work. as these are the main ones I use I can live without retrospective compatibility of the older plugins, so if the rest of my mucking about with it goes well there will be another customer signed up before the end of the month. Might only have it for a year though, because if next year they try to up the annual price by more than inflation I'll jump ship.
Got another e-mail and tweet of 'Adobe' professionals advising me why i should sign up.
HDR, Panoramic creation via image stitching, Content Aware Delete, Camera Shake removal, Layers, Better image repair and touch up tools & a couple more.
So, given I use Photomatix for HDR, can't work with layers, believe camera shake removal is a step of automation too far, already having Content aware Delete lite - they've managed to say that i should pay the £120 pa for something to create pano shots via stitching images together.
Fairly sure i can find something that does that job for a one of purchase off less than £120 - or, and this may sound a bit far fetched - i could just use the panoramic feature on the X-Pro 1 and capture it all in 1 shot!
TBH, this cloud computing stuff reminds me of the main frame era, when some one like IBM installed a mainframe for a few hundred quid, then tied you into a maintenance contract to keep it going - and any exit of contract would leave you without access to all the data you had processed and created using said mainframe. It's nothing more than a licence to print money... ???
Quote from: Andrew on November 22, 2013, 12:46:42 PM
TBH, this cloud computing stuff reminds me of the main frame era, when some one like IBM installed a mainframe for a few hundred quid, then tied you into a maintenance contract to keep it going - and any exit of contract would leave you without access to all the data you had processed and created using said mainframe. It's nothing more than a licence to print money... ???
Or even older....when IBM made tabulating machines. They did not sell the machines, they leased those, but they sold the punch cards. Without the cards, and you HAD to use IBM cards, you could do nothing.
Quote from: Andrew on November 22, 2013, 12:46:42 PM
TBH, this cloud computing stuff reminds me of the main frame era, when some one like IBM installed a mainframe for a few hundred quid, then tied you into a maintenance contract to keep it going - and any exit of contract would leave you without access to all the data you had processed and created using said mainframe. It's nothing more than a licence to print money... ???
IBM maiframes where never cheap. :o
My information may be a bit off, but my point was spot on - once you got the machine in (whether tabulating or mainframe) you were then hooked and had to cough up what ever IBM considered to be reasonable, or lose every aspect of your work up to that point.
Cloud computing seems as thogh it is heading that way - and i find that very worrying. >:(
I'm adverse to anything Cloudish. That's why I bought Lightroom 4. And Elements 11. I'm waiting for someone to discover that somewhere in the licence agreement you've given up your copyright, the deed to your home and any inheritance you've got coming. Ever since '08 and the big crash I've come to distrust all thing corporate. Adobe is a U.S. company and it seems that lying cheating and stealing has become their new business model.
My son uses PSP or whatever it's called now and he produces some very fine images. (better than me, but don't tell him)
Can one of you full photoshop owners who have Bridge explain to me what is the point of Bridge? What does it do that LR doesn't, and why it is that when I search my images folder with 'search all subfolders' ticked it only returns one result from the folder I was looking at yesterday?
Yep, I trying out the CC thing. Photoshop CC crashed my PC so badly I didn't even get a BSOD, it just stopped! Not looking too promising overall at the moment.
Howard you may find this useful
http://psd.tutsplus.com/tutorials/tools-tips/top-10-reasons-you-should-be-using-adobe-bridge/
Then again you might not. :o
I only seem to use Bridge when I want to get two or more images on the PS screen, for combination of the images or just to extract one part to paste on to another.
Bridges also stores all your RAW images so if you want to rework or produce a different effect from scratch, whilst retaining an image that you have deemed satisfactory, you can start again with that RAW image. I expect that there are other simple ways of achieving this but it's the way I've taught myself.
Quote from: Andrew on November 23, 2013, 12:26:16 AM
My information may be a bit off, but my point was spot on - once you got the machine in (whether tabulating or mainframe) you were then hooked and had to cough up what ever IBM considered to be reasonable, or lose every aspect of your work up to that point.
Cloud computing seems as thogh it is heading that way - and i find that very worrying. >:(
I wonder if this is going to signal a turning point for the likes of gimp and any other parts of the gnu foundation? I'm sure Adobe et al have done their research, but there are a significant number of people who want to buy, not hire software...
Quote from: Paul Montgomery on November 26, 2013, 06:45:53 PM
Quote from: Andrew on November 23, 2013, 12:26:16 AM
My information may be a bit off, but my point was spot on - once you got the machine in (whether tabulating or mainframe) you were then hooked and had to cough up what ever IBM considered to be reasonable, or lose every aspect of your work up to that point.
Cloud computing seems as thogh it is heading that way - and i find that very worrying. >:(
I wonder if this is going to signal a turning point for the likes of gimp and any other parts of the gnu foundation? I'm sure Adobe et al have done their research, but there are a significant number of people who want to buy, not hire software...
You can't buy software but only a licence to use it. The software always belongs to the company/original producer. Check the small print. :doh:
OB, when people say 'buy' software they mean buy a perpetual licence, which like a long leasehold is for all practical intents and purposes 'owning' the underlying asset. Many of the licences even confer on the licencee the right to sell the licence on (Adobe's do, for example). A perpetual licence is a long way from monthly rental with a 30 day expiry.
Meanwhile, thanks Alan for the Bridge tutorial link. I would try some of that stuff, but Bridge has had a little egg timer going in the corner of it for more than 4 hours now, saying that it is building thumbnails. It did that yesterday too. Frankly it looks completely superfluous. As for keeping original RAW files, I simply create a virtual copy in Lightroom or Aftershot as the first stage in editing a RAW, so th original is always next to the edited version in the catalogs anyway.
Quote from: Hinfrance on November 26, 2013, 04:21:21 PM
Can one of you full photoshop owners who have Bridge explain to me what is the point of Bridge? What does it do that LR doesn't, and why it is that when I search my images folder with 'search all subfolders' ticked it only returns one result from the folder I was looking at yesterday?
Bridge was the Adobe precursor to LR. they still give it to light PS owners to run ACR and provide some sort of cataloguing facility.
Under their new cloud set up, they do PS & LR as a package...
Quote from: Andrew on November 27, 2013, 12:03:18 PM
Quote from: Hinfrance on November 26, 2013, 04:21:21 PM
Can one of you full photoshop owners who have Bridge explain to me what is the point of Bridge? What does it do that LR doesn't, and why it is that when I search my images folder with 'search all subfolders' ticked it only returns one result from the folder I was looking at yesterday?
Bridge was the Adobe precursor to LR. they still give it to light PS owners to run ACR and provide some sort of cataloguing facility.
Under their new cloud set up, they do PS & LR as a package...
. . . and the little egg timer is still spinning away . . .
Later, much later . . after having started at just before 8:00 am this morning it finally said it was ready to be used about 10 minutes ago. That's 15:50. So, more than 7 hours just to get ready. I then searched for 'guitar' which with the same folders in Lightroom returns 179 matches. Bridge returned just 70. Search of my wife's first name, Lightroom 1117 matches, Bridge 783. Conclusion, Bridge is a waste of time and disk space.
Just a couple of questions Howard.
How many images have you uploaded into Bridge and how many images are on L/r?
When you've finished working in L/R develop do you always export the final image back to it's original folder or a designated folder, if you don't there will always a discrepancy between L/r and Bridge as far as numbers are concerned.
Been working with mini Bridge this pm, no bother at all. ;)
Alan, I can't actually answer question 1. Every time I open Bridge it starts 'building criteria' from scratch. With some 49k images that takes it more than 7 hours. And I can't get Bridge to look at all my image files in one go, even though they are all in subdirectories under one master directory.
Question 2 is easy. The virtual copies and any exported to Photoshop or Photoplus edits are stored in the same folder as the source image.
Well, I'm glad it works for you, so keep on with as it is part of your workflow :tup: For me, it's just not worth the bother.
Still toying with signing up, because I would so like to have Photoshop, but this looks like the dangerous bit of the agreement to me:
Renewal
After the first 12 months, we will automatically renew your contract based on the current price of the offering.
Cancellation
We'd hate to see you go, but if you cancel within the first 30 days starting from your contract date, we'll give you a full refund. Otherwise, you'll be billed 50% of your remaining contract obligation for the cancellation or removal of seats. If you ever need to cancel, just call Customer Support
To my way of thinking that means that if they jack the price at renewal up to the original high levels you won't be able to get out of it without paying half a year's higher rental. So, much as I would really really like it I cannot commit to a vague open ended contract like this. I could cry. :'(
Anyway you look at it, there are an awful lot of people unhappy with Adobe right now. Good time for a competitor to step in, if one had a comparable product market ready.
Quote from: WillyP on December 01, 2013, 04:17:38 PM
Anyway you look at it, there are an awful lot of people unhappy with Adobe right now. Good time for a competitor to step in, if one had a comparable product market ready.
No-one does though, at least not to really rival photoshop. I've decided to bite the bullet and sign up - I'm going to keep an eye on the forums and see what transpires. Couldn't access Adobe France so had to use a credit card with a UK address on it - useful to keep one of those for emergencies. On sign up the conditions were slightly different in that they said that they would notify of any change in price before renewal so that you could cancel then. That makes it more acceptable to me. I won't put anything in LR5 just in case ;)
Out of curiosity, how are you getting on with Creative Cloud, Howard? Having moved to Mac I have discovered that I can't transfer my CS5 license :'(. I could move to Cloud or "downgrade" to Elements, haven't decided what to do yet.
Hi Ogga - well I haven't used LR5, as I said earlier, because I don't want to find myself in the position where my catalogues are useless. LR never has been backwards compatible.
As for Photoshop CC - all I can say is it does what it says on the tin. Unlike jinky I have had no issues with Nik not working, but I did have some plugins in Elements that won't work with PS CC, again because it is not backwards compatible with 8bf or even 16bf files from CS6 backwards. All my Topaz stuff upgraded and installed to work with it flawlessly too. It works really quickly on my PC and now they have gone back to a darker default skin it looks better IMO too. I don't use bridge or mini bridge, just LR4.
I have to admit to being partly driven to it because of the changes they made to the Elements interface between versions 9 and 11, and the fact that Elements still, after all these years, doesn't have a curves adjustment layer option.
I thought that the Adobe licences were transferable between Mac/PC, so what's going on?
Thanks H. Yes, licenses are transferable, but only for the latest version.
Quote from: oggalily on January 17, 2014, 04:19:23 PM
Thanks H. Yes, licenses are transferable, but only for the latest version.
That's very very naughty of them. Almost as evil as Apple :knuppel2:
I toyed with the idea of CC, but I already have LR5 and CS5 - so couldn't really see what I was getting for my money.
So instead have upgraded to CS6 and will be better off in about 18months time :0
I saw there are a few problems with the update they released this week.
It's working OK for me Don, but then I only have CC and I am not a power user.
Mark, it was a different deal for me. Buying CS6 would have cost just over 5 year's worth of the subscription plan I'm on. And that's the UK version. The French version would take nearly 8 years to pay off. For me it's the only way Photoshop could ever be affordable.