WOOHOO
Sony are releasing two new models the A560 (14.2mp) and the A580 (16.2mp) Or A55 and A33 for the UK market by the look of it. Both with HD Video Capture and Sweep Panorama mode....and HDR function. I reckon these could be SERIOUS contenders to the CANIK market...both with SSS inside so any lens is automatically stabilised...at first glance both look good, will be interested to read the reviews when they come out....sadly out of my price range at the moment but anyone looking for a feature packed DSLR could do a lot worse than either of these
Jessops are already listing the A560 at £649.00 with 18-55mm lens no price for the 580 yet but that's being released later this year or early next going by the reports....
So Sony have finally stepped up the war against the big 2 could they be aiming for that no. 3 spot or aiming to go higher given the "Brand Power" of Sony I reckon they could possibly knock Canon off at least for a while given the issues with Canon at the moment....
Knock Canon off what?
Didn't know they were on anything?
Oh hang on - no i've read that statement and realised they must be on something... :o
The Sales are bad at Canon, but Sony would really have to go some to get close to the same volume.
Sony's biggest problem is lenses. They just don't have good sensibly priced pro ones as far as I can see. (Though I could easily be wrong :tup: )
And lets also not forget, that Nikon have only just (Last 2 years) got Canon worried on with their Proconsumer/pro camera's. All of Canon's for years have been better. The lower spec Nikon's are still only average at best on the noise front.
But I'm a die hard Canon user, so I do have rose coloured glasses. Cool eh. 8)
Oh, and what issues BTW?
Apart from sales?
Can I get a discount if I let them disconnect the HD video? If I wanted video I'd buy a camcorder. :P
The A55/33 interest me to some degree. New AF module should make some of my shots a little easier to achieve. Video, nah, not for me. Still, new technology hey, maybe Canon will do something special with the 60D...oh, hold on :legit:
Quote from: Carlj on August 27, 2010, 10:26:34 PM
maybe Canon will do something special with the 60D
yeah, withdraw it and admit they've made an awful mistake :tup: ;) (said the Canon owner to Zebedee)
It hurts so much to see Sony so completely miss the point.
Yeah they have great cameras and great innovations. So did Minolta. (Hmm, what happened to them....?)
Pros need dependability. If one of my Nikons breaks down then Nikon will have it repaired in 5 days or loan me one until they can fix it. If I couldn't do that for some reason I'd call up a hire place and have an identical camera at my door in 48 hours. All my lenses and flashguns would fit and all the buttons would be in the right places.
If a lens went down on me I could either rent or call up any one of about 20 people I know who might be persuaded to lend me some kit. I can also buy cheap consumer lenses as backup or just for fun. And scour my local camera shop for second hand bargains to add to the toy cupboard.
Same is true of Canon.
If Sony want to make serious inroads into the pro market then one business plan would be
1. Set up a hire firm or flood the hire firms with discounted Sony kit - make it as easy and cheaper to hire Sony kit than anything else.
2. Provide a complete pro repair service - loan out a camera as soon as yours goes in for repair.
3. Get some high end pros to use their cameras and shout about them - they really do have some nice stuff. (And yes, I may be available..... :) )
Then they will become an aspirational brand and this will trickle down to the consumer market.
Because I'm not sure they get that people don't buy Sonys because they are Sonys. Making better and more technical cameras isn't helping them.
And in case you need it - here's a reminder of the numbers http://nikonrumors.com/2010/07/08/nikon-1.aspx Canon's market share FELL by more than Sony's share. And if I read their charts right the D3000 (the 5th most popular DSLR in the world) sold more by volume than all Sonys put together. Oh and apart from Canon, Sony were the only manufacturer to lose market share in 1st half 2010.....
Perhaps Sony are not interested too much in the 'pro' market. Not being privy to their marketing strategy or the market split between those who call themselves professionals and those that are amateurs, I would think the greatest growth potential for sales lies with the latter.
There lies the nub....Sony do have one or two pros using their gear, and proudly, but this sector of the market is much harder to crack than the entry level/enthusiast level. So momentum is slow. Time will tell whether it becomes a sector that Sony wants.
Quote from: ABERS on August 28, 2010, 10:37:59 AM
Perhaps Sony are not interested too much in the 'pro' market.
14 MP, 7 fps and a body only price of around a grand. Not your average beach camera.
But my point was that aspirational marketing and "trickle down" seems to be working for the guys who are actually shifting a lot of cameras. Sony's "cramming loads of cool features and then flogging them without support" isn't.
When they launched the A100 the had a stated aim of being "number 3" in some time period (I forget). They can't do that without models for each market.
Don't Sony make the sensors for Nikon? Or is this an urban myth? If they do, couldn't they push how great their sensors are?
Nick
Quote from: nickt on August 28, 2010, 11:24:41 AM
Don't Sony make the sensors for Nikon? Or is this an urban myth?
Nobody (apart from the obvious people) seem to know for sure.
http://www.alphamountworld.com/forums/sony-news-and-rumors/sonynikon-sensor-partnership-dead/2010-8/6219
Either way it makes no odds. It's a myth that Nikon go to Sony and ask what they have on their shelf and Sony sell the junk and keep the good stuff for themselves. Nikon specify exactly what the sensor should do and "a company" fab it to order.
It's also a myth that any company makes the best tech they possibly can regardless of cost. So if Sony do make sensors for Nikon it's because they can make them cheaper than anybody else - not necessarily better.
This is like sitting in watching a focus group who know a lot about a little and sod all about anything important! :legit:
The two new Pentaxes expected at Photokina use Sony sensors. I was hoping that they would be announcing a FF model, but apparently they are quite happy to have a gaping hole in the product range between the APS-C models and the 645 (which I reckon is about 5 years too late to market)
The Sony's do sound interesting, but on the whole I think the tech is in rather a state of flux at the moment, what with EVIL cameras allegedly on the rise. And why doesn't anyone make an SLR with a fast switching LCD mirror? Or is that what the 'transluscent' mirror in the new Sony's is?
Nice to see that Sony are increasing their line up. But it looks like all the manufactures are falling into the same old trap IMHO. More and more gadgets like video and live view. Increasing the pixel size etc. But at the end of the day.. It's cameras that we want...NOT video cameras..LOL.
That's why I upgraded to an A700 nearly a year ago now. Cause it was being discontinued and as with the A500/A550 before they were moving away from a top spec camera.
I know its down to individual taste and requirements but I know I'm NOT going to be upgrading to either of these two new ones.
Whats the point, neither the A560/A580 look like a major upgrade from the A700. Which does have the same sensor as the Nikon D300/300s.
NOW if Sony bring out an A800..Full frame without video and at a good price then I will take a close look at that and probally buy..
Sometime the old saying are right...Less is more :tup:
Quote from: ABERS on August 28, 2010, 01:43:54 PM
This is like sitting in watching a focus group who know a lot about a little and sod all about anything important! :legit:
Then don't watch. Simples.
Quote from: Jonathan on August 28, 2010, 05:06:46 PM
Quote from: ABERS on August 28, 2010, 01:43:54 PM
This is like sitting in watching a focus group who know a lot about a little and sod all about anything important! :legit:
Then don't watch. Simples.
What and deprive myself of some simple amusement?
Quote from: ABERS on August 28, 2010, 06:21:49 PM
Quote from: Jonathan on August 28, 2010, 05:06:46 PM
Quote from: ABERS on August 28, 2010, 01:43:54 PM
This is like sitting in watching a focus group who know a lot about a little and sod all about anything important! :legit:
Then don't watch. Simples.
What and deprive myself of some simple amusement?
IIIINNNNNNN the blue corner!
Quote from: alan1j on August 28, 2010, 05:06:13 PM
Nice to see that Sony are increasing their line up. But it looks like all the manufactures are falling into the same old trap IMHO. More and more gadgets like video and live view. Increasing the pixel size etc. But at the end of the day.. It's cameras that we want...NOT video cameras..LOL.
To me, this is all reminicent of the VCR days, when they were building and touting features like being able to program 100 yrs worth of shows, as if anyone, even the TV channel people knew what'd be broadcast next week nevermind 100 yrs. Or that Bugati that does 260 mph that can only be driven on closed, empty race track at that speed. Exercises in 'wow' engineering that serve little to no, real purpose. :2funny:
I have to say if I was in the market I would consider an upgrade but purely for the faster FPS rate rather than the higher pixel count and video function, as I've said before I have no need of video, I wouldn't use it if I did have it and I don't want it I have a JVC Everio for vidoe which my missus uses for work and for the odd day out to Monkey World/Safari Parks etc.
Agree with JR though Sony really does need to up it's After Sales Service and try to make in-roads into the pro-market, I love my A350 and there are functions I would like to see on new models Horizon Level (think the new models may have the rule of 3rds grid which is better than nowt) a lower ISO function as well as Higher ISO, I get that being able to shoot in low level light is a distinct advantage but surely so would being able to go down to say ISO 25 or even 50 just for those really bright sunny days, (which we have had some of believe it or not).
And this thread was in no way started to become a flame war, each manufacturer/camera has their advantages and disadvantages over each other and it comes down to personal preference, those who don't do their research might well reach for the latest 18.1mp camera just because it's 18.1mp rather than doing what they want it to do...I did my research and I went and tried Canon/Nikon/Pentax and Sony, sadly the Nikon D90 was waaaaaaaaaaay to much money as was the pentax, didn't like the canon (think it was the 40d) and picked up an Oly and put it down when I realised how small it felt in my hands...so I bought the Sony...got a decent Minolta 75-300 for less than £60.00 so the 2nd hand glass is out there and I really think my photography is improving all the time, thanks in part to having more versatility with a DSLR rather than the bridge camera I did have and partly because of the constructive criticism my shots have got from here/flickr/camera club etc...
We all have a hobby we enjoy regardless of the kit we use let's not get caught up in the CANIKOLY flame wars lets just enjoy our hobby and each others shots regardless of the kit used ;)
Despite what I say - which is largely tongue in check, I always try and also say that the camera/system to have is the one that suits the person for either the needs or the feel.
As I think has been said elsewhere, there are not many people that can tell which camera takes which picture - full frame or crop sometimes, but not actual camera.
I agree with Jonathan on many points here, but the most relevant to me is the aversion to the name Sony.
Why on earth didn't they just leave the name Minolta? It was such an excellent brand.
Quote from: krennon on September 02, 2010, 06:47:50 PM
We all have a hobby we enjoy regardless of the kit we use let's not get caught up in the CANIKOLY flame wars
but it's why i bought a Canon - so i've got something to shoot back with :D
Quote from: chris@seary.com on September 06, 2010, 08:40:43 PM
Why on earth didn't they just leave the name Minolta? It was such an excellent brand.
Depends if you are already a photographer. If you want to penetrate the market you don't attack the 'mature' section you concentrate on the sector with the greatest growth potential, all those that are hovering whether to buy a camera or not.
Stop a 100 people in the street and ask the question, which of these two names have you heard of, Minolta or Sony?
The decision making chain is long and complicated, but having a recognisable brand is a strong start.
Where does the statement 'aversion to Sony' come from? Is that personally or a belief that it is generally so?
Quote from: chris@seary.com on September 06, 2010, 08:40:43 PM
Why on earth didn't they just leave the name Minolta? It was such an excellent brand.
I used to work for Sony. There is no way they would use another name for their camera brand.
If they bought Rolls Royce they would use it to make Sony cars.
"I used to work for Sony. There is no way they would use another name for their camera brand"
You mean to say you weren't born with a Nikon in one hand and an sb600 in the other, and you've done stuff other than be one of the best wedding togs out there :o ;)
Sorry I don't believe it at all please provide cv's, payslips, P60's etc to prove you have not always been a pro tog... :P teehee
Quote from: krennon on September 10, 2010, 06:42:37 PM
You mean to say you weren't born with a Nikon in one hand and an sb600 in the other, and you've done stuff other than be one of the best wedding togs out there :o ;)
Um I've done a couple of other things with my life so far...
BA(Hons) (as my mum likes to put on my letters) in Classics (Latin, Greek, Ancient Philosophy etc - not piano playing as people often assume)
Masters in Robotic Underpant manufacture
18 months for an IT firm working on Government contracts - fresh out of college I worked for the DSS and got charged out at £1/4 million a year. Hmm, your tax money hard at work..
Couple of years working in the City in an FX dealing room for Sony. This was about the time the Praystation came out. We had the first one in the country set up in a massive city office with 100 inch projector TV when these things were cool.
Set up my own IT firm (which my wife still works for) working for financial companies - Citibank, Dresdner Kleinwort Benson, Zurich etc.
Did about 4 years at DSG (company that owns Dixons, Currys etc) originally taken on to spy on an offshore dev team then ran their Euro conversion (11 stores in Ireland) then test manager on their new till system and then some fiddly stuff on their trading websites.
But now I just take pictures ;) More fun. Way more fun.
You mean some one has worked at DSG who actually HAS some knowledge about Cameras, Computers and the internet!
You learn something every day...
The problem with all these new models is that no manufacturer realises that there are still some photographers out here.
Who needs HD Video - do you - buy a Video camera then and do it properly.
Who needs 95,000,000 ISO - most of the time 25-400 would be more than enough for me.
Who needs all the other gimmicks?
What I would really like to see is a camera like the Olympus OM1 with a 24X32mm Sensor (Maxi 4/3) with autofocus and a simple manual over ride, a proper pentaprism finder and Microprism focus ring and a needle match semi auto exposure system. To take OM lenses (Loads about) and a price tag of about £800 with a 50mm f1.8 lens. This would truely be a photographers camera.
What would you like to see introduced????
Well, CannOffice, these days, I couldn't work with a limit of ISO 400 - I regularly use Iso2000+ and a 50mm lens would be almost useless for 90% of what I photograph!
Semi-Auto exposure? Yes, I could live with that - its pretty much what I see though the view finder of my cameras now - Stick it in manual and its about there!
Sensor size? I like the 1.3 crop of the 1D series.
What I would like is slightly better AF than my 1DMkIII has - most of the time, its very very good, every now and again, (Mostly BIF - which is probably 90% user error) I want better.
So basically a MkIV would do - but at over £3K it will take a lottery win. (Especially after what we bought this weekend! And no nothing to do with camaras :( )
Yes, had one of those - it was called a Canon A1.
Now i have a 5DMkII - and guess what? I use mainly in manual mode most of the time. 50mm lens is an often discounted lens but i still pop mine out every now and again.
Got another shoot in October - might spend the day doing fashion with 50mm only, just to remind myself.
50mm lenses are very nice to use and they are light, but you have to get a bit personal with your subject which is no good if you are shy.
Sandy