Paper sizes and other questions

[Sarasocke]

Hi !

I recently took a couple of photos to an actual camera shop to get them printed. I was told that the usual small format is 10x13cm (ratio 3:4). I found this odd, as any paper I've ever bought is 10x15 (2:3). The original photos are also 2:3. Looking at an online service the offer both, but state that the classic size is the 2:3. It's so long since I actually had any photos printed - what is your experience ?

In any kind of software I have (NX/PSE/CS) if I try to print with a frame, either bits get chopped off or there's a white margin showing. It seems impossible to centre a print properly. It made me feel better seeing some prints done by an online service - they weren't centred either !
Do any of you guys print photos with a frame yourself ? I've stopped trying, which is rather a shame for printing things like greetings cards.

'Nother question - does anyone use Adobe RGB ? I've been told that prints could come out weird and it's better to use sRGB.

[Forseti]

I recently took a couple of photos to an actual camera shop to get them printed. I was told that the usual small format is 10x13cm (ratio 3:4).

If it's A4 size (Europe 210mm x 297mm - US have different sizes) then yes - the ratio of the longest side to the shortest side.

The original photos are also 2:3.

Are you sure about that? Nikons can't be that much different to Canons which on most DSLR's is 3:2. Check your handbook - usually the longest side is given first. I'm assuming here that you're not talking about having cropped to 2:3 but about original sensor captured sizes.

Looking at an online service the offer both, but state that the classic size is the 2:3.

Depends on how you view the paper. Holding it in portrait orientation you could say it's 2:3 whereas in landscape it would be 3:2 - still the same overall size though in the end.

In any kind of software I have (NX/PSE/CS) if I try to print with a frame, either bits get chopped off or there's a white margin showing. It seems impossible to centre a print properly. It made me feel better seeing some prints done by an online service - they weren't centred either !

Borderless printing or bordered printing should be an option in your printer driver. It is on mine anyway - Canon MP620.

Nother question - does anyone use Adobe RGB ? I've been told that prints could come out weird and it's better to use sRGB.

If shooting jpegs then set in-camera to sRGB and have Photoshop/Elements set to respect that profile. When sent to the printer this gets converted to CMYK anyway although I'll be the first to admit that I'm no expert when it comes to printing.  

[SimonW]

Aspect Ratio is something that often bothers me - because I like my photos to fill the medium I'm using with nothing left over. if you print smaller sizes, maybe to fit in an off-the-shelf frame, the most common are 6X4 (3:2) or 7x5 inches. Then there's A4 etc..  For a slide show using an older digital projector or TV it's 1024x768 pixels, 4:3, but the latest are 1920x1080 pixels 16:9. My older camera is 4:3, the newer one is 3:2, so in most cases I need to crop something or leave part of the display or paper unused.

For very quick printing to small sizes of paper I find the tool that came free with my Epson printer is ideal - a tick box lets me choose between filling the paper (thus cropping part of the image, or fitting it all in, or leaving it centred with a margin.

Hope that's of some help.

[greypoint]

For straightforward prints I also use the Epson software as it's so easy.  For printing to various sizes or greetings cards etc. I've always used a very simple programme called Printshop - suitable for 5 years and over so I can just about manage it Using the blank page option it's easy to place the photo where you want and to add frames/borders etc. I've tried other software but it's sooooo simple I always go back to it. Can't be bothered with anything complicated and too mean to pay more than a few pounds for any software! Serif for calendars though.

[Simple]

Carol,

It also annoys me a lot. I therefore always crop my images to suit my output, be it 6x4 or A4 or 7x5. When I compose a picture in camera I always allow for extra space around my composition so a 3x2 ratio of Nikon APS-C is suitable to be printed as a 7x5. This normally means that I need extra space around the shortest side of my picture.(Too much foreground/sky)
I personally crop the image in CS to the desired format before I upload to web for printing. The crop tool in CS is very good for this. If you select the crop tool, click on the little arrow next to the tool on the top menu. This will display the available crops. Now at the top right hand side is a little arrow in a circle, click on there and you are seeing the tool preset options. Near the bottom is a preset called "crop and marquee". click on that and choose yes in the pop-up. You will now have all the normal printing crops without the preset 300 dpi. Unfortunately you will have to crop each image to the size you want, but at least you have in hnd what is going to be cropped.

Hope this answers your querie?

[Sarasocke]

Thanks for the replies.

@ Forseti - whether 2:3 or 3:2 it was the ratio I meant (btw these guys say 2:3  not 3:2 http://www.pixum.de/product/2-premium-foto-10cm.html)
My photos are this ratio without cropping and if I buy paper it's 10x15cm. I was just surprised to hear that 10x13 was the "norm", as I have never seen photo paper this size for sale.

Printing with border is an option, it's no problem to set it up, but the printer never prints bang in the middle. I have a Canon Pixma iP4500, tried the Canon software too. As I said, the online printer didn't get it right either 

@ Simon - I usually print to fill the paper, which is usually the a.m. 10x15 or A4

@ Sue - I'll have a look at the Printshop SW, as printing cards has driven me nuts.

The reason I'm coming up with all this, is that when I do a shoot, people get a CD and I tell them that all the photos are a regular size for printing. It really is so long since I actually had something printed professionally.

[Oldboy]

You have the option with Photoshop to fit media before printing. You should be able to adjust the borders with your printer software abd preview before printing. In the commercial printing we used A3+ paper and printed two A4 prints on the page, then trimed as required. We used Fineprint for setting documents up, as it gave more control than printer software. A link is provided below. 

http://www.fineprint.com/

[Hinfrance]

You can easily set up custom crop ratios in just about all editing programmes to use for specific printing requirements.

I use Qimage for printing stuff I am going to put in frames etc.

For cards etc I have set up different sized templates in Serif PagePlus (X4 is the current version, but I think there are earlier versions available for free) and just import photos and resize/crop them to fit my requirements.

You asked about using aRGB. Reds and violets are duller and greens and yellows can be more detailed in aRGB rendered in sRGB. For the difference in the way that aRGB appears when rendered by an sRGB device see:

http://www.kenrockwell.com/tech/adobe-rgb.htm

Opinions differ wildly on this subject, but personally I work jpgs end to end in sRGB. That is except RAW files which I edit in a ProPhoto colour space (and I probably shouldn't be bothering with that) and export to sRGB at the end. Unless I do them in Elements in which case they are imported from ACR as sRGB . .

I may one day find out I am misguided, but I haven't seen any 'real world' disadvantages to this approach in the quality of output so far. And indeed most consumer print labs will expect sRGB and may very well not render aRGB even if the profile has been attached. Caveat - printers are not (generally) sRGB devices, but if the colour space of the input file has assigned different values to shades and colour depth then conversion to the printer ICC will produce errors. Clearly pro printers like Loxley will do a proper job but the quality gain will be arguably negligible.

Over to Oldboy for further clarification . .

[Oldboy]

Over to Oldboy for further clarification . .

I doubt it! 

Colour management takes a year to learn fully as it's quite involved and not easy to learn. 

Didn't like Qimage but that was a few years ago, so we switched to fineprint.