Spawned by the conversation in What Bemused you today thread and picking up on aspects in
Quote from: ABERS on January 24, 2013, 04:51:33 PM
Whoa!, don't pull the plug Mick!
As Alfono says this site has got it right, it is populated by people who are comfortable with their photography and is not an excercise in mutual backslapping. It also is not peppered with strange expressions like 'togs' and 'glass' so my toes don't curl like when I visit another site. ;)
I agree that this site has got it right; But does this make it appear like a cosy closed shop to potential new members ? :-\
"Being comfortable with your photography", would you be prepared to be an On-line Mentor, if someone asked you to help them expand upon their current abilities ?
I would have thought any one of us would help out where we can if any one should ask
Agree with Beryl. :tup:
When members have a problem they do post a question on here, to which someone has an answer. ;D
Quote from: Beaux Reflets on January 25, 2013, 07:35:28 AM
Spawned by the conversation in What Bemused you today thread and picking up on aspects in
Quote from: ABERS on January 24, 2013, 04:51:33 PM
Whoa!, don't pull the plug Mick!
As Alfono says this site has got it right, it is populated by people who are comfortable with their photography and is not an exercise in mutual backslapping. It also is not peppered with strange expressions like 'togs' and 'glass' so my toes don't curl like when I visit another site. ;)
I agree that this site has got it right; But does this make it appear like a cosy closed shop to potential new members ? :-\
"Being comfortable with your photography", would you be prepared to be an On-line Mentor, if someone asked you to help them expand upon their current abilities ?
That used to go on a lot in the old days of the DCM site. I've spent hours exchanging PM's and emails with a couple of people, one I remember went on for many many months and it can become extremely time consuming. Perhaps I haven't got the knack of imparting knowledge or technique in what can become a somewhat tedious drawn out operation, no matter how enthusiastic the recipient may be!
The odd one off question like "what button do I press" or "how do I do this or that" of course is usually met with an answer from the membership, but I think there was a deeper reasoning behind the question.
I'm afraid I am not a fan of on-line tuition or any form of distance learning as far as photography is concerned. I get a little angry when I see the flimsiness of some of the courses on offer and the abilities of the so called tutors that help you for what in some cases is serious money!
Several things I would advise if anyone wants to improve, or think they need to improve; join a club, where advice is free, get out and just "DO IT" learning by your mistakes all the time, don't flog yourself to distraction by those mistakes and finally if you need to see how your photography stacks up, join the RPS and work towards the distinctions they offer.
I see that Tim Wallace has now achieved the Fellowship of the RPS, congratulations.
As an old saying goes 'Some folk do not like to hang their knickers on the line' ;) and I just wondered whether potential new comers (and perhaps some current members who appear to remain quiet) may prefer to receive assistance and constructive critique, on a one to one basis.
The idea being that they could post an image to their gallery, and then privately PM a member of their choice for assistance.
Does this sound like a good idea?
And if so perhaps in a thread titled Mentoring :-\ - Folk willing to assist in such a way, could post an image/s that best describe their areas, so that a potential requester feels confident enough to ask for an opinion and or assistance, as they expand their repertoire. :-\ ?
:tup:
This is and always has been a really friendly site. I didnt visit for a while as was too busy with business but was made very welcome when I returned. I agree about the "tog" "glass" business it gets very wearing. The one that gets me is people who go on about "togs" etc and all their jargon then spell lens "lense"
You can offer constructive critisism on here and no-one takes offence or starts a row.
Quote from: ABERS on January 25, 2013, 09:21:49 AM
Quote from: Beaux Reflets on January 25, 2013, 07:35:28 AM
Spawned by the conversation in What Bemused you today thread and picking up on aspects in
Quote from: ABERS on January 24, 2013, 04:51:33 PM
Whoa!, don't pull the plug Mick!
As Alfono says this site has got it right, it is populated by people who are comfortable with their photography and is not an exercise in mutual backslapping. It also is not peppered with strange expressions like 'togs' and 'glass' so my toes don't curl like when I visit another site. ;)
I agree that this site has got it right; But does this make it appear like a cosy closed shop to potential new members ? :-\
"Being comfortable with your photography", would you be prepared to be an On-line Mentor, if someone asked you to help them expand upon their current abilities ?
That used to go on a lot in the old days of the DCM site. I've spent hours exchanging PM's and emails with a couple of people, one I remember went on for many many months and it can become extremely time consuming. Perhaps I haven't got the knack of imparting knowledge or technique in what can become a somewhat tedious drawn out operation, no matter how enthusiastic the recipient may be!
The odd one off question like "what button do I press" or "how do I do this or that" of course is usually met with an answer from the membership, but I think there was a deeper reasoning behind the question.
I'm afraid I am not a fan of on-line tuition or any form of distance learning as far as photography is concerned. I get a little angry when I see the flimsiness of some of the courses on offer and the abilities of the so called tutors that help you for what in some cases is serious money!
Several things I would advise if anyone wants to improve, or think they need to improve; join a club, where advice is free, get out and just "DO IT" learning by your mistakes all the time, don't flog yourself to distraction by those mistakes and finally if you need to see how your photography stacks up, join the RPS and work towards the distinctions they offer.
I see that Tim Wallace has now achieved the Fellowship of the RPS, congratulations.
Some very valid and sound advice Alan.
Your suggestion in joining a club, effectively allows a degree of privacy through face to face one to one friendships within a club; I just feel that additional atmosphere may be of help to folk who have limited time to socialise (but have a little time to be on-line) due to circumstances.
Have you not got a special section for shy people and those who are not very savy where they can go and sak questions with ut feeling embarrased ................sort of thng.
That way we can all chip and help in if we know the answers
Quote from: Beryl on January 25, 2013, 09:48:23 AM
Have you not got a special section for shy people and those who are not very savy where they can go and sak questions with ut feeling embarrased ................sort of thng.
That way we can all chip and help in if we know the answers
I could not see a section/thread for such purpose - Hence getting this thread going to see what may materialise :tup:
I am sure we all have visited numerous forums and photography sites over the years. It is remarkable that even the big sites only have a small core group of really active members. They are the ones commenting and helping with queries. The only difference is of course the amount of members, that post pictures and have queries, after which they vanish. Or the backslapping brigade that only post pictures, waits for comments and not participates in discussions or comments on other peoples pics. I think the latter group are the biggest contributors to photography forums.
I have tried to get many of my students, camera club members, friends and family to enjoy and join CC. The reason they did not, was because to them the site seemed cliquish and they felt like they would intrude. One person said they felt like a stranger interupting a friendly chat between good friends. I know when people join and introduce themselves they get a nice warm welcome from 10-15 people. but you have to get them to introduce themselves in the first place. So what to do......???
I do not have any answers, but I would think you let things be and have a site for 25 people or completely revamp the site.
Make the site unique in one way or another. For example, tell people they get serious critique/praise on their pictures when posting. And give them serious critique/praise. Horizon not straight, over exposure, background distracting, lovely B/W conversion, great use of perspective, etc. It will be boring after a while but not for the recipient. And never ever just say "nice capture"!!
Or market the site as a fountain of knowledge for all things photographic. They have a photographic related question this forum will answer it.
The site than needs to state clearly its intent and a concerted effort of all active members promoting with facebook and friends should get you a start.
These are just my ideas, do note Mike, pulling the plug was not an option ;-)
Can I be a little contentious here.
I said this on another forum and got called all manner of names as a result. ::)
It was under the heading of " Physician Cure Thyself " and alluded to the fact that that those who readily offered constructive criticism should have a look at their photography before making suggestions as to how to improve others' work. What I should have said more politely perhaps is "Is there anyone here that has the wherewithall to advise people that ask for advice?"
O.K. we can all see wonky horizons, under and over exposure, the odd blown highlight and blocked shadow, a post emerging from a head and the like, but can you teach people to "see" a picture and that photography is much more than running around firing off frame after frame, or the interminable procession of picture postcards.
I know I can't because I have enough trouble trying to satisfy my own needs to improve!
I've just been looking at some B+W pictures on another site which are beyond redemption and yet they have received a rave review from another forum member, so the author will sit back satisfied with his work thinking he has 'cracked it'.
Be careful what you say, it can reveal much about you rather than the photographer.
As an example and as an aside I usually watch, with an afternoon cuppa and a biscuit, a quiz show that requires the contestant to answer True or False. This particular contestant was asked "Did Tennessee Williams write Death of a Salesman?". Whilst working out true or false he said, "I've got a lot of his records in my collection, but I don't remember that title!" ???
For what its worth, I would help in any way i could. However, the question is would anyone actually want my help?
I don't know why, but i see this forum as being more for people interested in photography than for people who just happen to read the same magazine. As such I think I'm probably more in need of help than being a helper. But as mentioned above, I've joined the RPS with a view to getting my 'L'...
Quote from: ABERS on January 25, 2013, 03:26:50 PM
O.K. we can all see wonky horizons, under and over exposure, the odd blown highlight and blocked shadow, a post emerging from a head and the like, but can you teach people to "see" a picture and that photography is much more than running around firing off frame after frame, or the interminable procession of picture postcards.
I still have the occasional lamp post growing out of someone's head, but I'm getting better at spotting these things before I press the trigger.
Still have a lot to learn, but I'm lucky I have people who point these things out. Here, elsewhere and in private. I often don't have the patience or time to correct a shot afterwards, but I think I take in most of the advice, and very slowly I am improving. I hope.
Not up to giving advice, and when I comment on a photo it is hardly ever a technical comment, unless the horizon is so wonky even I can see it. (And I have problems seeing straight lines!)
Hmmm not sure this helps the topic evolve, but I'm not going to wipe it now!
Quote from: Reinardina on January 25, 2013, 08:38:19 PM
Not up to giving advice, and when I comment on a photo it is hardly ever a technical comment, unless the horizon is so wonky even I can see it. (And I have problems seeing straight lines!)
Hmmm not sure this helps the topic evolve, but I'm not going to wipe it now!
When you comment on a photo it's your opinion, but that may still be a technical comment. For example, you might say a picture is too dark or light for your taste, but that is a technical comment as you are giving advice about how it should be corrected. Nothing wrong with that as that is how we learn. When you are in the same position, remembering your own advice you will adjust your camera to get the best picture. My point is, you don't have to be a 'expert' to give advice, just the honest truth as you see it. Your opinion still counts regardless of your experience. :tup:
Quote from: Oldboy on January 25, 2013, 09:18:11 PM
Quote from: Reinardina on January 25, 2013, 08:38:19 PM
Not up to giving advice, and when I comment on a photo it is hardly ever a technical comment, unless the horizon is so wonky even I can see it. (And I have problems seeing straight lines!)
Hmmm not sure this helps the topic evolve, but I'm not going to wipe it now!
When you comment on a photo it's your opinion, but that may still be a technical comment. For example, you might say a picture is too dark or light for your taste, but that is a technical comment as you are giving advice about how it should be corrected. Nothing wrong with that as that is how we learn. When you are in the same position, remembering your own advice you will adjust your camera to get the best picture. My point is, you don't have to be a 'expert' to give advice, just the honest truth as you see it. Your opinion still counts regardless of your experience. :tup:
Hmmm yes ... But (here we go again!) I remember photos I took, when I first discovered digital photography, that totally bowled me over. When I look at some of them now, I shudder!
Now, just imagine someone as green in photography terms as I was then, taking my opinion as gospel truth, because I managed to give the impression I knew what I was talking about ...
That person might still be making the mistakes I made in those days.
Quote from: Reinardina on January 26, 2013, 08:47:30 AM
Quote from: Oldboy on January 25, 2013, 09:18:11 PM
Quote from: Reinardina on January 25, 2013, 08:38:19 PM
Not up to giving advice, and when I comment on a photo it is hardly ever a technical comment, unless the horizon is so wonky even I can see it. (And I have problems seeing straight lines!)
Hmmm not sure this helps the topic evolve, but I'm not going to wipe it now!
When you comment on a photo it's your opinion, but that may still be a technical comment. For example, you might say a picture is too dark or light for your taste, but that is a technical comment as you are giving advice about how it should be corrected. Nothing wrong with that as that is how we learn. When you are in the same position, remembering your own advice you will adjust your camera to get the best picture. My point is, you don't have to be a 'expert' to give advice, just the honest truth as you see it. Your opinion still counts regardless of your experience. :tup:
Hmmm yes ... But (here we go again!) I remember photos I took, when I first discovered digital photography, that totally bowled me over. When I look at some of them now, I shudder!
Now, just imagine someone as green in photography terms as I was then, taking my opinion as gospel truth, because I managed to give the impression I knew what I was talking about ...
That person might still be making the mistakes I made in those days.
A single persons opinion is what it is. I am sure my opinion on pictures depends on my mood, well being and experience. The more opinions you gather the more valid the points become. If one person tells me my pictures are over saturated I will look and probably change nothing, but if I get that comment on a regular basis I know I am doing something wrong.
Quote I've joined the RPS with a view to getting my 'L'...Quote
What do you mean by "view to getting my 'L'..." ?
Quote from: Simple on January 26, 2013, 10:39:54 AM
.... but if I get that comment on a regular basis I know I am doing something wrong.
According to who? You may like the pictures as they are otherwise you wouldn't have published them, that's your presentation of them, your unique style. Why should you take notice of that criticism?
Quote from: Beryl on January 26, 2013, 09:31:32 PM
Quote I've joined the RPS with a view to getting my 'L'...Quote
What do you mean by "view to getting my 'L'..." ?
Have a look at
http://www.rps.org/distinctions-introduction
Quote from: ABERS on January 26, 2013, 10:17:47 PM
Quote from: Beryl on January 26, 2013, 09:31:32 PM
Quote I've joined the RPS with a view to getting my 'L'...Quote
What do you mean by "view to getting my 'L'..." ?
Have a look at
http://www.rps.org/distinctions-introduction
Having read a wee bit about these destinctions
"Please note: Only members of The Royal Photographic Society are entitled to hold a Distinction; if, therefore, your
membership lapses, you should stop using the letters after your name. It is usually possible, however, to rejoin and
have your Distinction re-instated for a small additional administration fee."
:2funny:
What is the point? Quite frankly I just cannot be bothered! Lets face it, if you have earned letters after your name for your ability and understanding in photography you have earned them!
I will carry on enjoying, learning and building upon my photographic skills and abilities regardless :tup:
Quote from: Beaux Reflets on January 27, 2013, 06:45:55 AM
What is the point? Quite frankly I just cannot be bothered! Lets face it, if you have earned letters after your name for your ability and understanding in photography you have earned them!
I will carry on enjoying, learning and building upon my photographic skills and abilities regardless :tup:
Of course, the whole point of the distinctions is to act as a target or challenge to reach a level in your photographic endeavours. To offer your work up for scrutiny by recognised and accomplished photographers. You are not required to use any letters after your name if you do not wish to, many people don't, they are just satisfied with having attained which ever level they have aimed for.
The RPS runs workshops to help photographers towards the attainment of such distinctions so it is an ongoing and positive two-way connection towards improvement.
My club is a great advocate of engaging in such activity and it is quite remarkable how the work of participants come on leaps and bounds when they take part and become successful in achieving a distinction.
Your response is not unusual and understandable after reading just a wee bit about the distinctions. ;)
Quote from: ABERS on January 27, 2013, 09:07:55 AM
Quote from: Beaux Reflets on January 27, 2013, 06:45:55 AM
What is the point? Quite frankly I just cannot be bothered! Lets face it, if you have earned letters after your name for your ability and understanding in photography you have earned them!
I will carry on enjoying, learning and building upon my photographic skills and abilities regardless :tup:
Of course, the whole point of the distinctions is to act as a target or challenge to reach a level in your photographic endeavours. To offer your work up for scrutiny by recognised and accomplished photographers. You are not required to use any letters after your name if you do not wish to, many people don't, they are just satisfied with having attained which ever level they have aimed for.
The RPS runs workshops to help photographers towards the attainment of such distinctions so it is an ongoing and positive two-way connection towards improvement.
My club is a great advocate of engaging in such activity and it is quite remarkable how the work of participants come on leaps and bounds when they take part and become successful in achieving a distinction.
Your response is not unusual and understandable after reading just a wee bit about the distinctions. ;)
I appreciate the aspect of a target or challenge. Just as I appreciate viewing and can see the merit in the work of accomplished photographers. In truth I would like to become an accomplished or recognised photographer one day.
But (to quote more from the wee bit I read)
"We welcome applications from non-members for the Licentiateship. When submitting, you must complete the nonmember section of the application form and include the appropriate membership subscription. If you are successful
with your Distinction application, your membership will be processed automatically as it is necessary to be a member of
The Society before a Distinction can be awarded."
Quite frankly, just as I never enter competitions that charge a fee, on the same principal, I would not put money before my photography just to get a pat on the back.
;)
I well imagine there are many fantastic photographers who go unrecognised throughout the world (due to circumstance and or principle) and if I become one of those that is fine by me; as I have enough folk commenting and or thanking me for my inspirational shots and will continue to enjoy sharing in the constant learning curve of the Art. ;D
I don't want to start a row ... but I have to put my two-penneth worth in here. I joined the RPS three years ago and , photographically speaking, it has been the best move I've made. Not only is achieving a distinction very satisfying (and really good in terms of self-discipline and working towards goals) but I have had a lot of fun. I've meant some wonderful people, rubbed shoulders and dined with some of my photographic heroes (well, the living ones ...) and learned a lot, just by talking to people who know so much more than I'll ever know. So, I'm with Abers on this one :tup:
No row from my point of view Delamanda. And I have said before, I doff my cap to those who see and reap accolades etc., through their work. I do not under estimate the work of the RPS or knock those who strive and achieve down that route.
It is just not the way I am likely to go, and in that, just maybe I am setting myself a harder target, while remaining as open as I can to learning more and more, putting it into practice and hopefully advancing as I go.
I see RPS as more than a competition. In my eyes its the same as any other body striving to achieve a level of excellence in its field.
As an electrical engineer I've convinced the IET that I'm of a suitable standard and may use MIET after my name. This is conditional (amongst other things) on my remaining a member of said organisation (for a fee...). The same applies to doctors (GMC) and teachers (GTC) and other professional bodies.
I achieved my LRPS a few years ago now, something I will always be proud of and would recommend to any photographer. To me it was a way of finding out if I had reached a level which my peers would appreciate and not just family, friends and joe public.
Any photographic organisation requires membership and fees so the RPS is no different. The attainment of any distinction from the RPS is not for the sake of a pat on the back and if your work is not up to the required standard you will be asked to try again and offered as much help as possible from the Society to achieve your goal.
I have been a working professional photographer for a few years now and always use LRPS after my name in all related correspondence. In fact it has helped and impressed a few people along the way especially when asked what it stands for ' Licentiate Royal Photographic Society '
There is no such thing as a ' Qualified ' photographer, I believe it to be a never ending learning curve but having been through the process of a RPS distinction I can honestly say it has been a great help to me.
My certificate hangs proudly along side pictures displayed in my shop and I would hopefully one day be able to achieve 'FRPS' Here is a link to my submitted panel http://www.lancashirephotography.com/#/royal-photographic/4527970527 and good luck to Paul :tup:
Quote from: Paul Montgomery on January 27, 2013, 12:11:03 PM
I see RPS as more than a competition. In my eyes its the same as any other body striving to achieve a level of excellence in its field.
As an electrical engineer I've convinced the IET that I'm of a suitable standard and may use MIET after my name. This is conditional (amongst other things) on my remaining a member of said organisation (for a fee...). The same applies to doctors (GMC) and teachers (GTC) and other professional bodies.
Indeed so do I. I also fully realise the reality that organisations, business, education etc., need finance to operate effectively, as well as the fact that destinctions and qualifications add a wee bit of clout for any field in career you are in.
But we have digressed ;) And for a variety of reasons many photographers cannot for what ever their reason (even self confidence) contemplate the RPS route initially (if that is the summit they wish to reach).
My reason for this thread was to try and get things buzzing and find ways of increasing membership to help finance and growth to honour the initial intentions it was set up for.
Who knows reader's looking in may now have a different view :-\
(And hopefully Mike will not pull the plug yet)
Quote from: Dave on January 27, 2013, 12:15:21 PM
I achieved my LRPS a few years ago now, something I will always be proud of and would recommend to any photographer. To me it was a way of finding out if I had reached a level which my peers would appreciate and not just family, friends and joe public.
Any photographic organisation requires membership and fees so the RPS is no different. The attainment of any distinction from the RPS is not for the sake of a pat on the back and if your work is not up to the required standard you will be asked to try again and offered as much help as possible from the Society to achieve your goal.
I have been a working professional photographer for a few years now and always use LRPS after my name in all related correspondence. In fact it has helped and impressed a few people along the way especially when asked what it stands for ' Licentiate Royal Photographic Society '
There is no such thing as a ' Qualified ' photographer, I believe it to be a never ending learning curve but having been through the process of a RPS distinction I can honestly say it has been a great help to me.
My certificate hangs proudly along side pictures displayed in my shop and I would hopefully one day be able to achieve 'FRPS' Here is a link to my submitted panel http://www.lancashirephotography.com/#/royal-photographic/4527970527 and good luck to Paul :tup:
I hadn't realised that you have to submit large mounted prints for your Licenciateship. The cost of that alone is enough to stop me dead in my tracks. I certainly couldn't justify the annual sub on top of that as well.
I understand perfectly the value for you Dave, but for the likes of me it would be no more than an expensive indulgence.
Each to his own, eh?
Quote from: Hinfrance on January 27, 2013, 04:48:57 PM
[
I hadn't realised that you have to submit large mounted prints for your Licenciateship. The cost of that alone is enough to stop me dead in my tracks. I certainly couldn't justify the annual sub on top of that as well.
I understand perfectly the value for you Dave, but for the likes of me it would be no more than an expensive indulgence.
Each to his own, eh?
You don't heed to submit prints Howard you can submit digital images on a CD.
Quote from: Beaux Reflets on January 27, 2013, 01:28:29 PM
And for a variety of reasons many photographers cannot for what ever their reason (even self confidence) contemplate the RPS route initially (if that is the summit they wish to reach).
That's just the starting point, nobody should ever be satisfied with where they're at.
Cheers Alan. It might be worth a look after all ;)
Quote from: ABERS on January 25, 2013, 09:21:49 AM
I've spent hours exchanging PM's and emails with a couple of people, one I remember went on for many many months and it can become extremely time consuming. Perhaps I haven't got the knack of imparting knowledge or technique in what can become a somewhat tedious drawn out operation, no matter how enthusiastic the recipient may be!
Alan,
I spent the last 11 yrs. of my career in an in-house training/troubleshooting position where I spent the better part of my day reviewing and repairing legal paperwork. If there's one thing I learned, some people are just thick and no matter how patient you are or how detailed you breakdown a process, they just don't get it. So I'm pretty sure it's not you. Conversely some of the thickest people were also the most arguementative and arrogant. :doh:
Interesting thread :)
I actually give one day courses for beginners here in Germany. I emphasize beginners, as I am no superdooper expert. The students I get are usually of the category who don't know what an aperture is. In other words, they have no idea about anything much. I welcome people with any kind of camera, as I believe that "good" photos can be made with even the smallest point and shoot.
After doing this for a couple of years I've come to the conclusion that in most cases their hearts aren't in it. At the end of the day, they insist on having understood everything - usually without having written one wored in notes. I meet up with them often some time later and their photos are just as awful as before. Zero composition, zero focus, zero feeling in general. The wonky horizons are still there.
I would imagine that if someone went to the trouble of posting a photo on a site like cc and specifically asked what they could do better, then they may take that advice, or at least try to.
We see many people who don't seem to have grasped the essentials, but their "skills" are still praised no end - just look at the amount of rubbish on flickr.
Very difficult subject, but I guess it would be an idea to start up a section here at CC and see how it goes.
As regards the RPS - I totally agree with Del and Abers. I take the distinctions as a goal to aim for myself and so far I've had great fun getting there. I must say that part of it initially was to have a piece of paper which says "she can do it", I'm sure the distinctions have made me look a little more like a "serious" photographer :D Living in Germany I can't join in most of the activities, and I get quite jealous reading about what Del's been up to!
Visited the RPS Members Exhibition opening at Watford, in the Harlequin Centre, and saw 100 prints of great quality and some of exceptional quality.
These were selected from some 9,000 entries and for you that find entry fees a little too much to swallow or printing and mounting costs too exhorbitant, everything in this instance was free.
No enrtry fee, printing, mounting and framing by the RPS exhibitions team, and a wonderful job they had done too! :tup:
So there's more to the RPS than trying for letters after your name.
P.S. The exhibition is in Watford until the 17th Feb. before moving on to other venues.
PPS Earlier I posted that Tim Wallace had been awarded his FRPS. I don't know where I gleaned that from, but I am mistaken he still retains his ARPS. Apologies to all and especially Bootneck! :-[
Quote from: ABERS on February 04, 2013, 09:07:23 AM
Visited the RPS Members Exhibition opening at Watford, in the Harlequin Centre, and saw 100 prints of great quality and some of exceptional quality.
These were selected from some 9,000 entries and for you that find entry fees a little too much to swallow or printing and mounting costs too exhorbitant, everything in this instance was free.
No enrtry fee, printing, mounting and framing by the RPS exhibitions team, and a wonderful job they had done too! :tup:
So there's more to the RPS than trying for letters after your name.
P.S. The exhibition is in Watford until the 17th Feb. before moving on to other venues.
PPS Earlier I posted that Tim Wallace had been awarded his FRPS. I don't know where I gleaned that from, but I am mistaken he still retains his ARPS. Apologies to all and especially Bootneck! :-[
Sounds good Alan, perhaps a thread for matters RPS - so events like that can be highlighted etc. ?
Loosely related, has anyone heard from Tim - he used to be a regular on certain camera magazine forum?
Quote from: Paul Montgomery on February 04, 2013, 06:23:20 PM
Loosely related, has anyone heard from Tim - he used to be a regular on certain camera magazine forum?
He has a three page article about his photographic career in this month's edition of the RPS Journal which reads like an advertorial for his business Ambient Life ;) and he seems to be going strong.
Quote from: ABERS on February 04, 2013, 07:07:19 PM
Quote from: Paul Montgomery on February 04, 2013, 06:23:20 PM
Loosely related, has anyone heard from Tim - he used to be a regular on certain camera magazine forum?
He has a three page article about his photographic career in this month's edition of the RPS Journal which reads like an advertorial for his business Ambient Life ;) and he seems to be going strong.
I wonder if he mentions "Stan from DCM" forums - lol
Quote from: Alfonso_Frisk on February 04, 2013, 08:56:10 PM
Quote from: ABERS on February 04, 2013, 07:07:19 PM
Quote from: Paul Montgomery on February 04, 2013, 06:23:20 PM
Loosely related, has anyone heard from Tim - he used to be a regular on certain camera magazine forum?
He has a three page article about his photographic career in this month's edition of the RPS Journal which reads like an advertorial for his business Ambient Life ;) and he seems to be going strong.
I wonder if he mentions "Stan from DCM" forums - lol
Naughty boy! :knuppel2:
Quote from: Alfonso_Frisk on February 04, 2013, 08:56:10 PM
Quote from: ABERS on February 04, 2013, 07:07:19 PM
Quote from: Paul Montgomery on February 04, 2013, 06:23:20 PM
Loosely related, has anyone heard from Tim - he used to be a regular on certain camera magazine forum?
He has a three page article about his photographic career in this month's edition of the RPS Journal which reads like an advertorial for his business Ambient Life ;) and he seems to be going strong.
I wonder if he mentions "Stan from DCM" forums - lol
Funnily enough he doesn't. ;) and he doesn't mention DCM either.
I wonder if Stan is still at it somewhere, raising the odd eyebrow and ruffling a few feathers by just saying how he saw the world. ;D
I saw his article in the RPS journal - not read it yet.
I frequent photanswers forum. There was a character on there who posted a lot of home-made bits like Stan did (eg flash controllers) - when I asked if it was him I got a very cryptic answer....
Quote from: Alfonso_Frisk on February 04, 2013, 08:56:10 PM
I wonder if he mentions "Stan from DCM" forums - lol
I have to say, I'm guilty of letting Stan get away with much more than he should over at DCM. To be honest some of his posts had me in stitches. To all he offended I can only apologise. :legit:
Quote from: Mick on February 05, 2013, 07:44:50 PM
Quote from: Alfonso_Frisk on February 04, 2013, 08:56:10 PM
I wonder if he mentions "Stan from DCM" forums - lol
I have to say, I'm guilty of letting Stan get away with much more than he should over at DCM. To be honest some of his posts had me in stitches. To all he offended I can only apologise. :legit:
It's not your fault Mick. Stan was a nasty person if you got on his wrong side, which didn't take much doing. :o
Quote from: Mick on February 05, 2013, 07:44:50 PM
Quote from: Alfonso_Frisk on February 04, 2013, 08:56:10 PM
I wonder if he mentions "Stan from DCM" forums - lol
I have to say, I'm guilty of letting Stan get away with much more than he should over at DCM. To be honest some of his posts had me in stitches. To all he offended I can only apologise. :legit:
Stan was harmless compared to the troll Ritchie.
He did annoy some with his own brand of critique, especially those who liked to "overdo" the photoshopping. ;)
Made me chuckle when Mr Wallace posted a shot taken on a beach and Stan pulled him up on his pebbles looking like carrots. lol
They were rather orange though ;D ;D
Quote from: Mick on February 05, 2013, 07:44:50 PM
Quote from: Alfonso_Frisk on February 04, 2013, 08:56:10 PM
I wonder if he mentions "Stan from DCM" forums - lol
I have to say, I'm guilty of letting Stan get away with much more than he should over at DCM. To be honest some of his posts had me in stitches. To all he offended I can only apologise. :legit:
Be interesting to hear his take on last night's Commons vote!
Just to resurrect this theme for a moment.
If you can't find help with your photography, have a look at this, the BA Hons degree course offered by the O.C.A.
http://www.oca-uk.com/creative-arts-degrees/undergraduate/ba-hons-photography.html
All this for just a mere £7,925. :o
It may not improve your photographic skills, but you'll be able to 'talk' a good photograph. ::)
I know, I know, here we go again. :doh:
I've resurrected this thread because I've just read the blog of a person who has been taking the OCA Bsc degree course for some time and who appears to becoming somewhat disillusioned with it, in as much as the course seems to be aimed at 'finding yourself photographically' and 'being able to express your inner feelings photographically', whatever that means. ???
Having read this thread through again, perhaps the question that should have been asked at the beginning was, Can Photography Be Taught?
Apart from the basics i.e what the camera does and how to compose a picture my answer would be NO.
Answers on a postcard please. ;)
I'm trying to 'find myself photographically,' but without spending a lot of money. A short course here, some advice from friends (here and) there, and a lot of photo taking/making.
Spent time this morning playing with an umbrella, to see if I can get an image I like. (That was before the heavens opened thank goodness.)
I do not want to 'express my inner feelings photographically.' I'd rather keep them to myself.
Quote from: ABERS on August 05, 2013, 04:11:21 PM
Answers on a postcard please. ;)
Haven't got a postcard, so on here will have to do! :P
Quote from: ABERS on August 05, 2013, 04:11:21 PM
Having read this thread through again, perhaps the question that should have been asked at the beginning was, Can Photography Be Taught?
Apart from the basics i.e what the camera does and how to compose a picture my answer would be NO.
I disagree. Photography can be taught, as can painting or/and drawing. After all, photography is only painting with light. This doesn't mean that the photograph they produce will please everyone. When Jackson Pollock first produced his paintings most people thought it was rubbish, I still do, but today he is regarded as a great artist. Even great masters like Vincent van Gogh failed to make much money from art, yet today his painting sell for millions. Our eyesight remains the same today as it was in 1870's, yet we look at his paintings differently now than the people did in the 1870's. This doesn't mean everyone who is taught how to paint will produce great art likewise, people who are taught photography will produce great photos. ???
I'm in the "photography can be taught" camp - both the technical and the artistic sides, for both theoretical reasons and practical experience.
On the specific question that forms the thread title - I used to try to help others until I became totally disillusioned. Now I wouldn't raise a finger to help people in general (as on a forum) but will attempt it for specific people if I know and trust them.
I'm also in the "photography can be taught" camp, remembering that even the very best of and or recognised photographers, always remain in the constant discipline of learning (lest they become dissatisfied and or disillusioned with the Art through not moving on).
I rarely try to rate myself or compare my efforts in relation to other's work, taking good critique and complement with humbled joy, and any bad critique truthfully proffered, as a way forward (part and parcel of trying upon such adventure).
I also believe that sharing images on-line is part and parcel of offering help to others especially when it is within the realms of a good and open forum as we have here at CC, and very often I see images on here that inspire me towards new hor :legit: izons.
Has anyone here been taught photography?
I would hazard a guess that the majority have been taught the basics of producing a photograph, what is needed to compose an image that is a recognisable record of what was in front of the camera when the button was pressed. In addition they have been taught that there are different genres of photography and perhaps, dependant on the level of instruction, been encouraged to look at as many photographs as possible, those deemed to be examples of photographic excellence.
Has anyone here been taught golf?
How to grip the club, what each club is designed to do, what stance to take for each shot. How to play a links course as opposed to a parkland course, how to read a green, watch the masters play, see how they swing the club.
Like photography, that is being taught the basics, the grounding that is necessary before you begin to hit a ball or press a button. The basic mechanics of the sport or artistic pursuit.
That is where the teaching ends. Photography is much more than a mechanical process.
My contention is from there on in you are not taught but you 'learn'. You learn by developing your own style, by trying different methods or approaches, by bending the rules and most of all by making mistakes, and plenty of them.
Asking for advice on the work that you produce will be counter productive if you heed it. You will turn into the person that gives the advice! The classic problem with club photography is listening to club judges passing comment on your work. Try to conform to that advice in order to get higher marks next month and you will quickly become a staid 'club photographer', in other words one who conforms to the rules and is not recogniseable from the rest.
So I concede you can teach someone to take a photograph but you can't teach someone to be a photographer.
Quote from: ABERS on August 06, 2013, 08:01:09 AM
Has anyone here been taught photography?
I would hazard a guess that the majority have been taught the basics of producing a photograph, what is needed to compose an image that is a recognisable record of what was in front of the camera when the button was pressed. In addition they have been taught that there are different genres of photography and perhaps, dependant on the level of instruction, been encouraged to look at as many photographs as possible, those deemed to be examples of photographic excellence.
Has anyone here been taught golf?
How to grip the club, what each club is designed to do, what stance to take for each shot. How to play a links course as opposed to a parkland course, how to read a green, watch the masters play, see how they swing the club.
Like photography, that is being taught the basics, the grounding that is necessary before you begin to hit a ball or press a button. The basic mechanics of the sport or artistic pursuit.
That is where the teaching ends. Photography is much more than a mechanical process.
My contention is from there on in you are not taught but you 'learn'. You learn by developing your own style, by trying different methods or approaches, by bending the rules and most of all by making mistakes, and plenty of them.
Asking for advice on the work that you produce will be counter productive if you heed it. You will turn into the person that gives the advice! The classic problem with club photography is listening to club judges passing comment on your work. Try to conform to that advice in order to get higher marks next month and you will quickly become a staid 'club photographer', in other words one who conforms to the rules and is not recogniseable from the rest.
So I concede you can teach someone to take a photograph but you can't teach someone to be a photographer.
:tup: :tup:
I'm learning. Doing loads of different things. Experimenting. Trying to develop 'an eye,' which is a bit difficult at times, due to circumstances. Occasionally I do get a 'hit,' but I 'hit' more 'misses.'
Have learnt a lot from friends on forums, who gave tips on how to improve things, without becoming 'them.'
I have teamed up with a local photographer, who tries to get 'photographical sense' into my head. Things that have become second nature to him, but require me to stop and think. A very long way to go yet, haven't even mastered all the basics. At least they don't come natural yet.
At the moment rather taken by 'creative' editing. Not strictly photography, I know, or not photography at all, but I like to see what can be achieved by twiddling filters and sliders, and whatever else is there to experiment with.
Have definitely improved over the past twelve months.
Am I a photographer? Will I ever be one? I don't know, but as long as I enjoy doing it, I'll continue.
I think a certain amount of photography needs to be learnt and a certain amount is an innate ability to see something and know it makes a good picture.
As for helping others, or learning from others, that is why I join a forum...
I believe that having my work critiqued will only make me a better photographer, as long as the critique is constructive and supportive. I also believe that forums like this should encourage some critique (if people want it) as some people have lots of experience and knowledge to share. I would love to have a mentor to regularly critique my work and make me a better photographer.
As a camera club member I am always teaching our new photographers the basics, I figure if I can teach them something it means that I understand it too!
Quote from: ABERS on August 06, 2013, 08:01:09 AM
So I concede you can teach someone to take a photograph but you can't teach someone to be a photographer.
I'll agree with almost everything you said (although you seem to have a higher view of photographic societies than mine) but I still disagree with the last clause quoted above. I'm only adding this in the hope of stimulating thought - I have zero intention of giving my reasons for my opinion.
Quote from: spikeyjen on August 06, 2013, 01:31:09 PM
I I would love to have a mentor to regularly critique my work and make me a better photographer.
As a camera club member I am always teaching our new photographers the basics, I figure if I can teach them something it means that I understand it too!
All the folk here are quiet friendly, so you could always ask members you feel may suit as a mentor on a regular basis (even if they choose to only work with you in strict confidence) by private message or email.
Personally, I would love to see a list of members in a 'CC Mentor Directory' as quite often I prefer to seek opinion relating to a particular genre rather than any stylised aspect; which was the original idea hiding behind the initial point of this thread, in hope towards encouraging more conversation and growth in this talent full forum.
:tup:
When I'm asked by anyone starting out in photography how they should proceed, I always advise them to join a club. Clubs vary in their facilities and in what they have to offer but for a complete newcomer there are always people there to quite readily explain the basics, or a specialised 'beginners section'.
They usually have sections that cover the different genres and photographers that specialise in those genres. Most clubs allow a possible member to attend for a few sessions before parting with any subscriptions, so it's worth a punt to see if it's for you. And of course usually a monthly criticism or judging for those that want that facility. It's that monthly judging that is usually the off putter. >:( ;)
Andy's original intention of setting up a mentoring scheme for CC raises the question, who on here is capable of undertaking such a task, willingly or not?
Volunteers one step forward! :legit:
Quote from: ABERS on August 06, 2013, 06:50:41 PM
Andy's original intention of setting up a mentoring scheme for CC raises the question, who on here is capable of undertaking such a task, willingly or not?
Well, you for a start Alan, and perhaps other RPS accredited or published individuals.
I wouldn't dare to presume to comment :-X
Howard
Having an RPS distinction or photos published or exhibited does not mean that one has the ability to mentor anyone, it just means that one's photography has caught the eye of someone somewhere. It does not confer the right or ability to hold forth on anyone else's photography.
Perhaps Andy should write a job description. ;)
Quote from: Hinfrance on August 06, 2013, 07:09:09 PM
Well, you for a start Alan, and perhaps other RPS accredited or published individuals.
I wouldn't dare to presume to comment :-X
Isn't that either limiting or even counterproductive?
There are many excellent photographers who have never joined the RPS (as a matter of interest, how many people outside the UK are members?). Additionally, what do you mean by published? Magazines and books will cater to a particular market that may not be the area of interest to an aspiring photographer. I've seen a lot of rubbish printed in magazines (by my standards. Argue with that if you wish; but unless I'm sui generis then this will apply to others appreciation of the work as well).
Even more, does the ability (even if we concede it) to produce great photographs guarantee the ability to teach? Dare I even suggest that the temptation to the tutor might be to produce other photographers in the same image; and if others have a different way of looking that is in marked contrast (and even antipathetical) to the tutor's, does the tutor's ability to produce great images in his style and vision translate into an ability to help others produce great work in a totally different way? I don't mean would you employ Karsh of Ottawa to teach landscape photography; I mean more along the lines of using Cindy Sherman to help you when your chosen "style" is more f/64?
Counterproductive, because popular demands will ensure a certain conformity of style. I've seen horrors in camera club exhibitions that would appear to be the house style; bad habits and poorly conceived work that seems to be inevitably taught and encouraged.
Quote from: ABERS on August 06, 2013, 08:42:54 PM
Howard
Having an RPS distinction or photos published or exhibited does not mean that one has the ability to mentor anyone, it just means that one's photography has caught the eye of someone somewhere. It does not confer the right or ability to hold forth on anyone else's photography.
Perhaps Andy should write a job description. ;)
A job description is not applicable, nor any Degree or certificate in qualification.
Those seeking a Mentor would approach photographer's who they naturally consider may help them progress with the development of their photographic journeyAnd the CC Mentor Directory just a list providing names of those prepared to assist if the are selected chosen or asked.
:tup:
Can I start one with a A in alphabetical order Alan - nudge ;) ?
For what it's worth, I think that Andy makes a good point here. Sounds like a good idea.
I`ve always worked on the basis ( in whatever job) of feeling anyone can talk to me about how I have done something and liked to think that when I worked i n different teams I could go to others. In the main this approach served me well and whether it was in my youth and community work or my photography I have at times benefited from sound advice / steers. Sometimes it has challenged me, other times backed up what I am doing and then again I have been met with silence or even rejection due to being busy etc. No matter you just carry on. In my youth work I was twice selected as some kind of mentor. Once for general training I had to do an NVQ in being a work based assessor and then develop a training course with a team and once as a supposed specialist in developing anti racist youth work projects. Both I felt were terrible because they were formulaic and set up one as the expert and others as the learners. I had to adapt what I did / how I worked to get anything out of the "courses" for myself and the "trainees" and those being mentored. I prefer the simpler approach of simply asking someone whose work you have admired "how did you do that?", how could I develop that style etc. I`m not sure at all about a registered mentor scheme on such a sit ( well I am sure really what I think ;) )
Quote from: Beaux Reflets on August 06, 2013, 10:33:07 PM
Can I start one with a A in alphabetical order Alan - nudge ;) ?
That sounds like a good idea, A is for Andy!
Working on the principle of Once Bitten Twice Shy I think I said way back in the thread that I got involved in something akin to this back in the days of the DCM forum and spent the best part of 4 or 5 months exchanging twice daily emails with someone up North. Never again.
I eventually buckled and quite rudely ended the liaison by suggesting that his work, like mine, could do with some radical cropping, preferably diagonally!
Sorry A for Andy. ;)
Ooh this is getting complicated.
As you say Alan, qualifications etc mean that someone's stuff has caught someone else's eye, but it is acknowledgement of a recognition of skill. I agree it does not make the holder of such pieces of paper either infallible or capable of coaching, but it does indicate a level of competence. As you quite rightly noticed that observation had an element of tongue in cheekness.
I would be prepared to answer technical queries that are within my ken, but certainly would not pontificate on artistic merit. If someone wants to know what knobs to twiddle then maybe I might know, but would a picture look better cropped (even diagonally), then no comment.
I suspect that most of my advice would consist of debunking the idea that anything can be fixed in editing. I learned a long time ago as a musician that any engineer who says 'we can fix that in the mix' is a damned liar. Getting things right at the outset is the key to success.
A for Andy it is then 8)
Quote from: StephenBatey on August 06, 2013, 08:44:20 PM
There are many excellent photographers who have never joined the RPS (as a matter of interest, how many people outside the UK are members?). photography;
Agreed the RPS isn't everyone's cup of tea.
Membership of the RPS is currently 11,000 give or take a few, it fluctuates from month to month, of which 1103 are overseas members. Not too sure where this fits in to the discussion. :-\
Quote from: ABERS on August 07, 2013, 11:41:24 AM
Membership of the RPS is currently 11,000 give or take a few, it fluctuates from month to month, of which 1103 are overseas members. Not too sure where this fits in to the discussion. :-\
My point was that I thought that there were at least some non-UK based forum members, and in any case the forum can be accessed world wide (except for states that impose censorship). Hence, restricting/limiting the definition of "photographers eligible to act as mentors" at least in part to a UK based organisation was, well, insular.
Where worldwide the RPS has a presence can be seen here
http://www.rps.org/
Go to the bottom lefthand corner of the page where you will see a drop down list 'Region and Overseas Chapters'.
So if you find youself in Quanzhou in need of a bit of mentoring, Bob's your uncle! :tup:
P.S. The Events section may be of interest.
http://www.rps.org/events/
aren't we all making this a little bit clinical.. I'm not a member of RPS but I am a member of APS (as an international member that means Australian Photographic Society), that doesn't mean anything other than I am a member.
I just wonder what the harm is in a little support, positive feedback, or constructive critique..
I used to enjoy the 'up' and 'down' critique on DCW, and I think everyone has something to offer, even just to say you like the image. You don't have to have letters, qualifications, awards to your name to be able to support another photographer.
Quote from: spikeyjen on August 08, 2013, 10:13:12 AM
aren't we all making this a little bit clinical.. I'm not a member of RPS but I am a member of APS (as an international member that means Australian Photographic Society), that doesn't mean anything other than I am a member.
I just wonder what the harm is in a little support, positive feedback, or constructive critique..
I used to enjoy the 'up' and 'down' critique on DCW, and I think everyone has something to offer, even just to say you like the image. You don't have to have letters, qualifications, awards to your name to be able to support another photographer.
:tup: A bit of fun and constructive spice in life has to be good ;)
Once there is enough interest in and from volunteers it may be worth having a list of names of the members who are willing to mentor and or critique