What made you feel good today

[donoreo]

Apparently we are.  It was a sunny day in Toronto but cold.  All around us to the West, North West and North they were getting hit with http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lake-effect_snow There are areas where they have just closed major highways because they cannot keep up and the snow plough crews need to rest. 

[Oldboy]

Apparently we are.  It was a sunny day in Toronto but cold.  All around us to the West, North West and North they were getting hit with http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lake-effect_snow There are areas where they have just closed major highways because they cannot keep up and the snow plough crews need to rest.

Never heard of that before but it sounds grim. Hope you all remain OK. 

[Jediboy]

I would imagine you cope much better than we would. Good luck with it. Any idea when it will be over?

[Reinardina]

Ever since I came to England in 1984, I was told England can't cope with snow, because it never snows here.

Since 1984, we had maybe one winter without snow. There may not have been a lot of it most winters, but everything grinding to a halt, with schools closed and people advised to stay home, when there is an inch of snow, has always seemed ridiculous to me and other 'Continentals' I know.

(in Holland) I never missed a day at school because of the weather. If there was too much snow to cycle, you left early and walked.

I only missed one day at work, because literally everything was covered in black ice. There was no public transport till about 4 pm. Some of my colleagues however, got their skates out, and skated to work.

You have to adept to the circumstances, and try to get on with it. I think they do that very well in the States and Canada, but nature will always be stronger than man, so people will get caught out at times.

We (in Britain), as a country, will now have to have a very serious look into the regular floodings, and try to find solutions for that.
And people in areas prone to flooding, will also have to have a think as to how they, personally and as a community can minimise the impact.

Oh boy, how I do like to set the wolrd to rights at times!

[hevans]

Ever since I came to England in 1984, I was told England can't cope with snow, because it never snows here.

some parts get regular snow, usually up north, but it's more the quantities that matter and the cost/risk balance as to how prepared the services are.   

Since 1984, we had maybe one winter without snow. There may not have been a lot of it most winters, but everything grinding to a halt, with schools closed and people advised to stay home, when there is an inch of snow, has always seemed ridiculous to me and other 'Continentals' I know.

(in Holland) I never missed a day at school because of the weather. If there was too much snow to cycle, you left early and walked.

Sorry, but the from the last 20 yrs here, I can confirm that the situation is generally every bit as bad in the flatlands as in the UK, for example . What you wrote could have been me reflecting on my experiences here. 

The three primary advantages of the flatlands is that the schools are usually within walking distance of the students' and teachers' homes, you don't have the colder temperatures found on the hills, and you don't encounter hills to climb with no traction. The former means the schools are much less likely to close and the latter two means you don't get stuck sliding down hills.

The railways have been particularly badly hit these last few years, with many cancelled trains, frozen points and trains breaking down, e.g. Fyra. What NS has done is to implement a "Winter" schedule, with a greatly reduced service....this doesn't really help those that must get to work and is genuinely an administrative exercise to keep their "reliability" figures high.

The roads last year were also a disaster zone, with (as in the UK) the gemeentes running out of salt/grit. And of course they don't grit the smaller roads at all, which is where the real trouble spots are. (I particularly remember an ice storm that hit Leiden in the '90s where there was a thick layer of very slick ice on everything, walking unaided was impossible, and the conditions persisted for several days with no action by the council).

And yes, this is all when less than a few cm of snow falls - although usually it falls, turns to slush and causes all the commuter misery without the joys of snowmen, sledding, snowball fights, etc.

I only missed one day at work, because literally everything was covered in black ice. There was no public transport till about 4 pm. Some of my colleagues however, got their skates out, and skated to work.

I've not missed work because I live close by. Although we have had several occasions where the wife has been told not to come in and work from home.

You have to adept to the circumstances, and try to get on with it. I think they do that very well in the States and Canada, but nature will always be stronger than man, so people will get caught out at times.

Yup. adaptation is the key. In the Northern US and Canada they expect several feet of snow each year and plan for it (snowploughs, grit, snow tyres, chains, etc), in the Southern US, one cm of snow results in a snow day and general chaos. Again, it's down to cost/risk - the cost of preparing in the more moderate climates for something that might not happen has to be weighed against the cost of when these conditions do happen.

We (in Britain), as a country, will now have to have a very serious look into the regular floodings, and try to find solutions for that.
And people in areas prone to flooding, will also have to have a think as to how they, personally and as a community can minimise the impact.

NL is particularly more sensitive to the effects of flooding, being caught between the North Sea and the German/Belgian rivers. The main threat is now flooding coming down the Rhine, which happened a few years back. They are also adapting to the situation - reclaiming the flood plains, but there is constant concern about the maintenance of the dykes, without any great governance intervention.

Oh boy, how I do like to set the wolrd to rights at times!

Yeah, we all do

H.

[donoreo]

Apparently we are.  It was a sunny day in Toronto but cold.  All around us to the West, North West and North they were getting hit with http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lake-effect_snow There are areas where they have just closed major highways because they cannot keep up and the snow plough crews need to rest.

Never heard of that before but it sounds grim. Hope you all remain OK. 

They are dealing with drifts of snow in the 8 to 10 foot range in areas.  No new snow here.  Saturday is supposed to be +6C and raining.  It was warmer today, will go up to -9C. 

[donoreo]

If it never snows how come EVERY version of A Christmas Carol shows a snow covered London?   I always see mention of spreading "grit" on the roads in the UK.  Most places here have given up on traction and just go for melting.  Growing up our town used to put a mix of salt and coarse sand.  Now they just use salt.  Lucky for us Ontario has one of the largest salt mines in the world so we get it quickly when needed but before winter they stock pile it in large dome shaped buildings. 

[Reinardina]

Thanks for the update!

I live of course very much in the past, where Dutch winters are concerned. Things have changed a lot apparently. Like the rest of the world, the Dutch seem to have become too pampered, and lost a lot of their sturdiness. Some trains have become lighter, and therefore (I think) more prone to delays. But they are still running most of the time.

Schools are closer to home, in general. My primary school was an hour's walk, which is do-able for a healthy child. Especially one who loved winter! We walked to school in twos or threes, and had lots of fun.

The amount of snow mentioned in the article, is a bit more than the inch I mentioned, and with temperatures below zero even in the day time, it will take longer to clear the stuff. But here (I live in Southampton), I see traffic grind to a halt on the motorway when the tyre tracks show the road surface through the snow. I cannot imagine that you cannot drive in those circumstances.
People do not seem to prepare at all. The right type of tyres (not necessarily winter tyres) with a good grip and maybe slightly reduced pressure may make a vast difference.

I know the rivers (in Holland) are regularly flooding and it was very severe a couple of years ago. Didn't realise the government isn't too interested in helping maintain the dykes.

I wonder if British rivers are 'suitable' for dykes, and whether it would be possible to keep areas further down safe at the same time. And what 'the people' would make of it. It would ruin the landscape, but might save the people and their homes.

If it never snows how come EVERY version of A Christmas Carol shows a snow covered London?   I always see mention of spreading "grit" on the roads in the UK.  Most places here have given up on traction and just go for melting.  Growing up our town used to put a mix of salt and coarse sand.  Now they just use salt.  Lucky for us Ontario has one of the largest salt mines in the world so we get it quickly when needed but before winter they stock pile it in large dome shaped buildings. 

I think Victorian times were much colder.
I remember reading once, that there was snow in London when the Ripper was active, and that was in August!

[Graham]

I think Victorian times were much colder.
I remember reading once, that there was snow in London when the Ripper was active, and that was in August!

  Yes and they used to hold markets and fairs on the frozen River Thames!






Ask Abers...he was there! 

[hevans]

Thanks for the update!

I live of course very much in the past, where Dutch winters are concerned. Things have changed a lot apparently. Like the rest of the world, the Dutch seem to have become too pampered, and lost a lot of their sturdiness. Some trains have become lighter, and therefore (I think) more prone to delays. But they are still running most of the time.

Schools are closer to home, in general. My primary school was an hour's walk, which is do-able for a healthy child. Especially one who loved winter! We walked to school in twos or threes, and had lots of fun.

I think the changes to society over the last 30 years is one of the culprits. People did used to live closer to work/school, or in the towns where driving wasn't required. Now with everyone and their parsnip having a car you can live further from work, shop at the out of town hypermarket and generally live further from conveniences.

When growing up near Buffalo NY, we'd often walk a mile through the snow (pavements and roads would be ploughed at some point) and didn't have a snow day. When we moved to Virginia, a single cm was enough to close the school. Big difference in the two scenarios was we lived in an urban area in NY and a rural area in VA; the trip to school in VA was 17 miles, and everyone rode the school bus.

While the students might still live close to the schools in the UK, it's not necessarily the case for the teachers, who also have to get to the schools.

The amount of snow mentioned in the article, is a bit more than the inch I mentioned, and with temperatures below zero even in the day time, it will take longer to clear the stuff. But here (I live in Southampton), I see traffic grind to a halt on the motorway when the tyre tracks show the road surface through the snow. I cannot imagine that you cannot drive in those circumstances.

That was one of the more extreme cases, but the circumstance you mention has the same effect here, only with cyclists flinging themselves all over the place with greater abandon.

I know the rivers (in Holland) are regularly flooding and it was very severe a couple of years ago. Didn't realise the government isn't too interested in helping maintain the dykes.

Well...it doesn't seem to be a very high priority. There was a recent story of the foundations of the Neeltjes Jan sluices being scoured away this summer. It's a constant maintenance issue - nature is unforgiving.

I wonder if British rivers are 'suitable' for dykes, and whether it would be possible to keep areas further down safe at the same time. And what 'the people' would make of it. It would ruin the landscape, but might save the people and their homes.

Visiting around Worcester this Xmas it seems that the flood plains are the real defences - much like in Eastern NL. If you raise dykes/levies, all you do is raise the water and cause more severe problems further down stream. The flood plains give breathing space ... but it was quite profitable for developers (and easy) to build on these large flat areas. I think that practise has now been stopped.

Interestingly, the Ijsselmeer is lowered by 20cm in the winter - to provide a large reserve of water holding capacity during the wetter months.

If it never snows how come EVERY version of A Christmas Carol shows a snow covered London?   I always see mention of spreading "grit" on the roads in the UK.  Most places here have given up on traction and just go for melting.  Growing up our town used to put a mix of salt and coarse sand.  Now they just use salt.  Lucky for us Ontario has one of the largest salt mines in the world so we get it quickly when needed but before winter they stock pile it in large dome shaped buildings. 

I think Victorian times were much colder.
I remember reading once, that there was snow in London when the Ripper was active, and that was in August!

Snow at Xmas is a romantic ideal, I'm not sure it's really ever been a common occurrence in London but it does emphasise that the season is winter. It also coats everything with a lovely clean crisp layer of white and makes the place look tidier - the meteorological equivalent of a fresh coat of paint.

These were anomalous situations. I think the time most think of was the Maunder minimum, or the "little ice age" when the Thames froze. Generally, though, temperatures have gone up over the last century (but that's a different debate).

As for the Elfstedentocht, I wouldn't be surprised if it never ran again. Not because of a lack of cold conditions to make the race possible, but due to safety requirements for the spectators. Last year there was thick enough ice for the skaters, but not thick enough to hold the hundreds of thousands of spectators. Another modern phenomenon, as more can go to see it because they have their own cars and are more mobile - 30 years ago the number of spectators would have been in the thousands, and very spread out.

H.

[donoreo]

Thanks for the update!

I live of course very much in the past, where Dutch winters are concerned. Things have changed a lot apparently. Like the rest of the world, the Dutch seem to have become too pampered, and lost a lot of their sturdiness.

It seems that way everywhere.  I remember when I was in high school talking about "that one time school was closed".  There were lots of times school buses would be cancelled because of snow, etc, but school was always open, except once when I was in grades 1 -6 (do not recall what year it was).  Of course my mother remembers on really cold days the principal would call the families of girls to tell them they did not have to wear a dress to school and could dress warmer. 

[Reinardina]

Thanks for the update!

I live of course very much in the past, where Dutch winters are concerned. Things have changed a lot apparently. Like the rest of the world, the Dutch seem to have become too pampered, and lost a lot of their sturdiness.

It seems that way everywhere.  I remember when I was in high school talking about "that one time school was closed".  There were lots of times school buses would be cancelled because of snow, etc, but school was always open, except once when I was in grades 1 -6 (do not recall what year it was).  Of course my mother remembers on really cold days the principal would call the families of girls to tell them they did not have to wear a dress to school and could dress warmer.

My primary school was closed only once: when the coal was frozen, and the central heating could therefore not be kept going. That was a day of pure joy! Winter fun all day!

[jinky]

I must admit the last couple of snow periods in Yorkshire, Leeds especially, I have bothered to post in numerous places how impressed I was with gritters/services and how things kept going in bad conditions. I sometimes think people are quick to slam services doing what they can in the face of quite horrendous conditions. Looks like flooding now is the major issue and questions have to be asked of builders /planners sometimes but also have to wonder just where it all ends.

[ABERS]

I think Victorian times were much colder.
I remember reading once, that there was snow in London when the Ripper was active, and that was in August!

  Yes and they used to hold markets and fairs on the frozen River Thames!

Ask Abers...he was there! 

Yes, the roast oxen and Mrs Miggins pies were delicious and kept the cold at bay. It got a bit chiily round the cod piece though!

1947 was the harshest winter I can remember, it seemed to go on forever. I recall we made a huge pile of snow in the playgound and then hollowed it out to make our version of an igloo. Just think what H&S would have made of that today, they've even banned snowball fights of late!

1963 was a bit nippy as well.

[DigiDiva]

Did you have a pet dinasaur!!!!!! Sorry. couldn't resist