What bemused you today?

[ABERS]

Are photographers especially prone to paranoia?

Reading that DSLR cameras were banned on the recent tours of the abandoned tube station at the Aldwych a whole load of hoo-haa broken out about the London Transport Museum's actions.

If anyone would have read the reasoning behind this they would have realised that the decision was taken for a good reason. http://www.ltmuseum.co.uk/whats-on/events/events-calendar/367-events-aldwych-underground-station

O.K. it could have been written differently. Note photography was not forbidden so you needed a compact or a phone camera.

PRadar picked up on this and without understanding the full facts the usual suspects swung into action.

By the way if you want to take pictures on underground stations there are another 270 for you to choose from!

[jinky]

Are photographers especially prone to paranoia?

Reading that DSLR cameras were banned on the recent tours of the abandoned tube station at the Aldwych a whole load of hoo-haa broken out about the London Transport Museum's actions.

If anyone would have read the reasoning behind this they would have realised that the decision was taken for a good reason. http://www.ltmuseum.co.uk/whats-on/events/events-calendar/367-events-aldwych-underground-station

O.K. it could have been written differently. Note photography was not forbidden so you needed a compact or a phone camera.

PRadar picked up on this and without understanding the full facts the usual suspects swung into action.

By the way if you want to take pictures on underground stations there are another 270 for you to choose from!

Fair enough that they set whatever rules they like on their property. I always see the point with tripods but not this equating all slrs with pro bodies. I can understand total bans - just not this selective stuff. I still have issues with Leeds City Council and their similar attitude towards photography on a public square hosting our annual German Christmas market staffed almost entirely by Brits and Poles. Still in that case I choose to ignore the rules and wait to be challenged. Has not happened this year yet
PS I did not comment over there as I rarely visit nowadays.Might play the POTY game though

[Oldboy]

Are photographers especially prone to paranoia?

Reading that DSLR cameras were banned on the recent tours of the abandoned tube station at the Aldwych a whole load of hoo-haa broken out about the London Transport Museum's actions.

If anyone would have read the reasoning behind this they would have realised that the decision was taken for a good reason. http://www.ltmuseum.co.uk/whats-on/events/events-calendar/367-events-aldwych-underground-station

O.K. it could have been written differently. Note photography was not forbidden so you needed a compact or a phone camera.

PRadar picked up on this and without understanding the full facts the usual suspects swung into action.

By the way if you want to take pictures on underground stations there are another 270 for you to choose from!

That explains a lot and the reason for my comment over there. In that case I agree with the restrictions. 

[Oldboy]

I still have issues with Leeds City Council and their similar attitude towards photography on a public square hosting our annual German Christmas market staffed almost entirely by Brits and Poles. Still in that case I choose to ignore the rules and wait to be challenged. Has not happened this year yet

I wonder under what bylaw they can enforce it? Don't have any problems like that in Brum. 

[jinky]

I still have issues with Leeds City Council and their similar attitude towards photography on a public square hosting our annual German Christmas market staffed almost entirely by Brits and Poles. Still in that case I choose to ignore the rules and wait to be challenged. Has not happened this year yet

I wonder under what bylaw they can enforce it? Don't have any problems like that in Brum. 

basically they successfully removed the public right of way over the squate when they rebuilt it and called it Millenium Square for all the people of Leeds using govt and local govt funding. They run events using council tax funding and offically have a policy of peopel being able to take photographs if they apply for a permit in advance and undertake to get consent forms for all adults / parents oif under 18s that are recognisable in any image before you can publish images anywhere. In practice only DSLR users have been challenged - whether with tripods or not- whilst the only sign on site says that "professional type" cameras are not allowed in the beer tent. A couple of years back I tackled it head on with the support of my local councillor and leader of the council who had been unaware of the policy. Events officer refused to back off and insisted on the issues standing for "health and safety and child protection concerns" as I " would not want shooting pictures of my wife through the windows whilst she was getting dressed" !!! Amazing logic. Ultimately they said I do the permits / release forms or if I continued to shoot I would be challenged and asked to stop. I declared a policy of non-cooperation and civil disobedience and have regularly shot any event on Millenium Sq I fancy, arranging group shoots with Leeds flcikr members on occasion. Never been stopped since - even when the vents officer saw me shooting a St Patricks Day event and I asked him what he was going to do with me. He replied " Do what you want" - so I took that as approval. Others have been challenged / stopped by security. I find if you are polite, ask stall holders, respond to people asking not to be in the shot all is well.

[Reinardina]

There's a Christmas market in Southampton, where I have been taking photographs. With my bridge camera, so not a dslr. No problems whatsoever.

Are photographers paranoid? I don't really know, but ...

On Tuesday I happened to be with a local photographer, when we spotted something building up. Police. fire engine, ambulance, the lot. Of course we went to have a look and there was a real drama going on. Some poor man had doused himself in petrol and threatened to set himself alight. To show he was serious he even lit a cigarette.

We both took several shots, till a policeman came over and asked us to stop or the images would be taken 'in evidence.' I obediently switched off my camera, as I felt it wasn't quite right to photograph something like that.

My companion however, who only had his point and shoot camera with him, and not his dslr, kept taking photos, only not so opnely.

While I thought the policeman asked us politely to stop, in my companion's opinion, he threatened us with taking our cameras in evidence.

I am 'just a housewife with a camera,' while he is a photographer. Would that explain the difference in reaction?

[Beaux Reflets]

There's a Christmas market in Southampton, where I have been taking photographs. With my bridge camera, so not a dslr. No problems whatsoever.

Are photographers paranoid? I don't really know, but ...

On Tuesday I happened to be with a local photographer, when we spotted something building up. Police. fire engine, ambulance, the lot. Of course we went to have a look and there was a real drama going on. Some poor man had doused himself in petrol and threatened to set himself alight. To show he was serious he even lit a cigarette.

We both took several shots, till a policeman came over and asked us to stop or the images would be taken 'in evidence.' I obediently switched off my camera, as I felt it wasn't quite right to photograph something like that.

My companion however, who only had his point and shoot camera with him, and not his dslr, kept taking photos, only not so opnely.

While I thought the policeman asked us politely to stop, in my companion's opinion, he threatened us with taking our cameras in evidence.

I am 'just a housewife with a camera,' while he is a photographer. Would that explain the difference in reaction?

That raises an interesting point R; Was the policeman just using the quick fire 'trained response' to make a point without inviting a long discussion, upon evaluating the situation or the fairness in taking pictures of folk in their private desperate frames of mind in public places.

I guess the thought of obtaining a signed model release would hold me back a bit from focusing in on the upset man. And I would hate the thought of the chap reacting the wrong way on seeing a camera pointed directly his way.

[skellum]

There's a Christmas market in Southampton, where I have been taking photographs. With my bridge camera, so not a dslr. No problems whatsoever.

Are photographers paranoid? I don't really know, but ...

On Tuesday I happened to be with a local photographer, when we spotted something building up. Police. fire engine, ambulance, the lot. Of course we went to have a look and there was a real drama going on. Some poor man had doused himself in petrol and threatened to set himself alight. To show he was serious he even lit a cigarette.

We both took several shots, till a policeman came over and asked us to stop or the images would be taken 'in evidence.' I obediently switched off my camera, as I felt it wasn't quite right to photograph something like that.

My companion however, who only had his point and shoot camera with him, and not his dslr, kept taking photos, only not so opnely.

While I thought the policeman asked us politely to stop, in my companion's opinion, he threatened us with taking our cameras in evidence.

I am 'just a housewife with a camera,' while he is a photographer. Would that explain the difference in reaction?

That raises an interesting point R; Was the policeman just using the quick fire 'trained response' to make a point without inviting a long discussion, upon evaluating the situation or the fairness in taking pictures of folk in their private desperate frames of mind in public places.

I guess the thought of obtaining a signed model release would hold me back a bit from focusing in on the upset man. And I would hate the thought of the chap reacting the wrong way on seeing a camera pointed directly his way.

I still have connections with the local press from my sports photography days and still cover the odd incident & accident for them. Most recently I photographed two RTA's for them. No blood and gore just the general chaos that had been created. To date I have had no problems with the Police but Security Guard types are another matter.

With your particular incident the Policeman may not have been technically correct assuming the suicidal man was on public property but I would like to think he had the unfortunate man's best interests at heart.

Personally I would not have photographed him in his obvious mental state but had he purposely set himself up as a threat to the general public for some ridiculous religious or political reason and was no longer a threat to anyone but himself then I would of had my camera focused on him to the end assuming I was not forcefully stopped.

On a lighter note I was once outside a building in Preston with another photographer and two Police Officers awaiting the arrival of Princess Ann. A few moments before she arrived we were instructed by a plain clothes Officer as to what we could and could not photograph one of which was her getting out of the car. It was only after she had arrived and gone into the building that we realised her car had stopped directly opposite the ' Old Dog' Pub.     Apologies to those who have heard me tell that tale before....

[Oldboy]

On Tuesday I happened to be with a local photographer, when we spotted something building up. Police. fire engine, ambulance, the lot. Of course we went to have a look and there was a real drama going on. Some poor man had doused himself in petrol and threatened to set himself alight. To show he was serious he even lit a cigarette.

I wouldn't take any photos in that situation, as the man was distressed and the taking of photos might have made it worse. I try to respect the privacy of anyone in a public place. One time I photographed some young people throwing snowballs at each other. On seeing me a couple of them approached me and said they were all under sixteen, but I pointed out they were in a public place so wasn't breaking any laws. O then said if they wanted I would delete the images from the card, which they requested and I deleted the photos. I could have swapped the card as they walked off and recovered them at home, but I didn't as that would have been unfair. 

[Reinardina]

Had I been on my own, I would not even have stopped to look. Now I did however. Everyone was at a 'safe' distance and there were quite a few people standing around. Teenagers filming it on their mobiles and builders evacuated from their place of work just next to the victim. All with their own opinion on how best to handle the situation. There was a large number of 'emergency personnel' present as well of course.

I'm still trying to work out what I can and can't do, photography wise, but 'breaking news' photography of this kind, is something I definitely would not want to do.

[krennon]

Teenagers filming it on their mobiles and builders evacuated from their place of work just next to the victim.

And therein lies the problem for the authorities as much as the photographer, point a dslr at an incident & the police will be there telling you, you can't take photos. Be a teenager/young adult and point your mobile & film whatever is ocurring and they don't bat an eyelid...fwiw those of you who remember my Tower Block Fire pictures when I was taking those shots one of the coppers who looked like he was only just out of short trousers thought I was a press photograpgher 'cos I had my dslr, and nearly let me through the cordon to get closer, it was only when I thought if he asks to see my press card I'm buggered that I told him I wasn't press....the look on his face priceless....he still let me get fairly close though 
Also let's not forget after the riots in August the police were asking for images from "bystanders" who had taken photos so they could use them to help identify those who decided that smashing up peoples business's and homes was a good idea....the authorities can't have it both ways

[greypoint]

I think one thing seems clear in these sort of circumstances - the restrictions that apply to photographers, whether self restricting or by others, do not apply to those, especially the young it seems, who will photograph or video anything and everything on their phones and upload it to youtube. I suspect if the man in question had set fire to himself there would have been video clips available for all to see.  Fortunately the quality is usually dire 

[Oldboy]

Each incident depends on circumstances. Taking photos of a house fire, a car crash or people committing a crime is withing my rules, no problem. I wouldn't take a picture of injured people at a car crash wouldn't be because, I wouldn't be respecting their privacy. In the case of a crime, those people would have stepped outside the law and therefore, shouldn't expect their privacy to be respected. 

[jinky]

I`d never have a issue with situations like the man and petrol - just would not shoot it. My only problems have been with ill advised security staff. My one funny story with the police was when I was taking shots of a demo once - some ludicrous ENP demo against HMV selling black music . After gettin g shots of the SWP and other demo shots I walked back to the car to come across a n officer deploying another 50 or so coppers from an underground car park nearby. being PCSOs as well as usual police they were all shapes and sizes and he was getting them prepared to close off a road. Asked them all to form a line across the road which they did - hokey kokey style all grasping each others waist! As I shaped up to take a shot - delayed by laughter at the shapes and sizes - he came over to me and asked me not to shoot. About to object he said " I know you can but please don`t make me look any more of a tosser than this lot are making me look right now - where do we get them from?". Laughing with him I agreed not to though regretted it after as it would have been a great shot. Just could not stop laughing at a lass about 5ft gripping the waist of another bloke 6 ft 4 in the middle of the row.

[spinner]

I have to say, every time I read one of these threads I am absolutely befuddled. This stuff just doesn't happen here. I walk around anywhere I want with a camera, never even get a second look. I was at the Grand Opening of my daughter's new Starbucks last night taking photos of the store and the crowd (for strictly family reasons) no one looked at me let alone objected. Is it just England? I know there's members who live on the continent in various places. Does this go on in Holland or Germany or France?