CHAT: THE BEST IN SHOW

[Reinardina]

Well we ended up with a double figure entry (eventually ). Apart from those that have made their apologies I must say I find that a little disappointing, given that the brief gave everyone a free rein.

I rarely enter, not because I can't be bothered, but because I don't think the format does anyone any favours. I only entered the "Umbrella" comp because we have an unusual brolly hanging in the hall. When it won I thought,"Now's the chance to see if a different format will work". Apparently it doesn't. I was expecting an entry to fill an exhibition hall!

Perhaps the word Exhibition was the wrong one, perhaps "Your Own Favourite Image of the Week" would have been better.

And then again perhaps there's only a dozen or so members that are competition orientated? 

Think you hit the nail on the head in your last sentence.

The people entering the competitions, here and elsewhere, are broadly the same people week after week.
It may not be everyone's cup of tea.

I like it, as it gives me something to 'aim for,' when I go out with my camera.

Might it become more attractive, if we could get more people to vote? They'd at least look at it then, and may think 'I would have done that differently' (or something similar) and try their luck/skills in the next competition?

Maybe a new thread, asking people why they don't vote or enter could whisk up business?

Have to sign off now, as my volunteer job beckons!

[spikeyjen]

I'm happy to put my opinion in here.
I am really sorry Abers that I did not get an entry in this week, but time/ sickness/ work/ other demands sometimes just get in the way. I did interpret your theme as 'the best OPEN image that I can take during week', and not something that would only be 'exhibition' quality. I just didn't get the camera out.

I thought it a great theme, and on another week at another time I will probably get more/ or less entries - that's just the nature of a hobby that cannot take priority on other things in life.

I do like the weekly comp, and like Rein, I think about what I can get whenever I get a chance to get out.

Having said that, I did like the critique ('up and down') that DCW offered as it gave you a bit of feedback. Here you only get 'x' votes and another chance to enter next week. Sites like this should be about support, encouragement and learning to get better pictures.
There seems to be a real reluctance and resistance to offering an opinion, compliment or suggestion for improvement on other people's work.

I don't think its just about competition, well, you don't really WIN anything, just the chance to do more work!!! I see it a change to think outside my comfort zone to see what I can get. If I want to enter competitions, I'll go somewhere that I get something to take home (even if it's a certificate!!)

Just my opinion...

[Reinardina]

This too is my personal opinion only. I may have got it wrong, in which case, I hope someone will put me right.

I don't think CC has ever had much of a critique 'thing' going. When I joined, (most of) the photographers here were very experienced, often even semi, or fully, professional. And most would only post an image, whether or not in a competition, if it was totally to their own satisfaction. Exactly what they wanted, and how they wanted it. No critique needed.

If they weren't sure about something, they'd ask.

This does not mean that no advice is ever given. I have had constructive criticism and ideas on how certain things might be done differently, in comments and by pm.

I am still only a 'housewife with a camera,' struggling to get to grips with my camera and photography in general, and advice is always welcome.

I do not like to give critiques though, as I do not know what I'm talking about, technically. Except when the subject is out of focus, or the horizon wonky, I don't see what's good or bad about an image.
I like a photograph, love it, dislike it, hate it, or it leaves me stone cold. All pure subjective.

I think there is an old critique forum on CC that is not much used, but I also think, that if you want critique/advice/comments on a certain shot, you can start a new thread and simply ask for it. I'm sure you'll get reactions.

Photographs uploaded in 'the normal way' that go into personal albums, do not seem to attract a lot of comments in general. Maybe because people simply do not have too much time. This was also the case on DCW, where images in albums hardly attracted any attention.

[ABERS]

The one question that always puzzles me is "what can I do to make it better ? "

Now, if you think it could be made better, why post it?  Persevere until it is better.

I always remember the words of John Bardsley FRPS, who encouraged me back in the early '80's, "If you're not happy with it, don't show it to me until you are".

[spikeyjen]

"If you're not happy with it, don't show it to me until you are".

I guess if that was the case I'd never post anything and I'd never learn what I could do to make it better

[Graham]

  I've taken loads of pics that I'm not happy with, but I don't remember one where I've not known why I'm not happy with it.
  If anyone asks a "How do I make it better" type question then they are going to get a confused, and possibly conflicting set of answers.
  I've been browsing another site ( ) recently and the number of "I'm shooting a wedding this weekend, what settings should I use?" questions is quite depressing. I was tempted to join up and say "The same settings you would use for any other situation ie the ones appropriate to the situation at the time!" or even "If you need to ask that then your not ready to photograph a wedding". I'm sure you can imagine how that would have gone down as a first post!
  Sorry I'm starting to rant.
  To get a specific answer you need to ask a specific question. 
  Getting nicely back to the "What can I do to make it better?" conundrum , perhaps It would be better to ask "How would you have taken it?"
                       Graham. 

[Reinardina]

"If you're not happy with it, don't show it to me until you are".

I guess if that was the case I'd never post anything and I'd never learn what I could do to make it better

Two totally opposite takes on the subject.

I'm sure a critique/advice/help thread could be very successful, but you would always get the opinion/advice of someone, who will not know exactly what the photographer is trying to achieve. (Even if it is explained carefully, there's always room for mis interpretaions.)
Different 'takes' on an image, might however set the creative juices going.

Hope I make sense.

But you're not alone Jen in missing the critiques, I think it was Oggalilly who recently said the same, and new members who have 'come over' from DCW, may be in the same position.

[ABERS]

"If you're not happy with it, don't show it to me until you are".

I guess if that was the case I'd never post anything and I'd never learn what I could do to make it better

I'm not saying he didn't constructively criticise what you did show him, if needed, but it made you think very hard and very long before arriving at something.

Making it better means what? Better in the eyes of others, better in your own eyes, better in content, better compositionally, better exposurewise ? Covers a wide spectrum that word 'better'.

You are a photographic club member  , don't you think it's better (there's that word again) to have a face to face discussion about your work rather than someone on a forum giving advice from a distance?

Further to Graham's thoughts "How would you have taken it?", there's always the danger with that, should you take advice from the answer, over time you could turn into a clone of the advisor.

Andy has recently asked if anyone would be prepared to offer a mentoring service to anyone who wanted it. Not many takers there. Is it because members don't feel they have the wherewithall and expertise to provide it, or is it because we're a happy bunch and don't want to offend. People's skin can be very thin you know.

[spikeyjen]

Boy, this thread is getting a bit heavy...
it was only an opinion!

[Beaux Reflets]

Boy, this thread is getting a bit heavy...
it was only an opinion!

I think it's very healthy rather than a bit heavy...   

Good Critique is most valuable - simply as it makes you question your own work.

Photography is subjective and often like marmite, and even the choice of the title for an image can make a whole lot of difference.

As for mentoring, we all probably benefit from having one or more, whether it is by direct or indirect means; for every time you look at a photograph, your brain asks the questions and the image gives some answers.

Always happy to mentor 

[Graham]

Boy, this thread is getting a bit heavy...
it was only an opinion!

  Well you dragged me from under my stone! We need a few more like you. 

[Reinardina]

They're all only opinions. From different people, with different experience levels, and different 'takes' on photography, and what they want to achieve.

I am, no doubt, the least experienced photographer  in this thread, and still have a lot to learn. I do get advice and hints from different people, but mostly subtle ones, not a full blown critique.

I think I probably learnt the most from my own mistakes. Looking back at photographs I took when I first started out, make me realise I have picked up a lot of know how over the years. By just doing, experimenting, reading, looking at other people's pictures, and indeed the hints and advice.

If I don't 'get' something, I ask.

Well you dragged me from under my stone! We need a few more like you. 


By the way, it's good to see you in daylight Graham!

[Hinfrance]

There's going to be major fence sitting from me on this issue. I can see the validity of all of the points of view expressed here, up to a point.

I don't like to put something up if it seems to me to be not quite good enough, although sometimes I do; I have learned from experience that on occasion images I post that I think are average at best can gain the most complementary comments, whereas some of the ones that I think are better than perfect are either ignored or savaged. Which just goes to show how little I know, and how much is simple, on occasion intense, unformed personal response to a picture.

The upshot is that Alan is right, one should always try to do better, but sometimes our level of experience is such that we don't know that our offerings could be better or if we do we lack the skill and knowledge to actually achieve that improvement. Which brings me to Re's and Graham's point (which seem to me to essentially the same), with which I have great empathy because I do this too, that sometimes you can look at a picture and find it either wow or yuck but not really be able to articulate why. So "what would you have done?" becomes the right question.

Lastly, I would be more than happy to initiate the old DCM habit of doing up and down critiques for the weekly competition, as long as such critiques remain firmly positive.

[SimonW]

Hi H. Re your second paragraph For the "best in show" comp I decided I'd definitely enter what I thought was my best shot taken that week even though I wasn't too pleased with it. And I often find that a shot I think might be a winner gets no votes at all. (I think it just shows that all our tastes are different - which is how it should be.)

[Beaux Reflets]

Like Howard, I'm happy about doing 'one before and one after critiques' with perhaps the mention of the shot you voted for (and others you may have considered) outlining your opinion upon its (their) attraction or merit.

Hopefully a critique aspect will not put folk off or drive future entries away, as it is good to see the number of entries and voters growing